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plastic pieces in the oil
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hoagy
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PostPosted: December 3, 2009, 5:31 pm    Post subject: plastic pieces in the oil

so i started giving the 650 some due winter maintaince. i drained the oil, pulled the filter and found this...






little hard plastics chuncks. maybe from the teeth of a gear, i dont know. i am hoping someone here will know. Very Happy

i thought that they were probably from the bendix gear on the starter. btw, the starter sounds like it is trying to chew its way out sometimes. so i tear the starter out only to find all of those gears are steel, and the starter appears to not have a bendix like a car starter.

so where do you think that they are coming from?

hoagy
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xsjohn
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PostPosted: December 3, 2009, 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: plastic pieces in the oil

Front cam chain guide looks like to me......engine has to come out of the frame and the head has to come off to change the front guide........maybe new cam chain at the same time.........xsjohn
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hoagy
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PostPosted: December 3, 2009, 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: plastic pieces in the oil

well, this is an '81 650 special. with 19,500 miles on the ticker. when should i think about doing a whole head job? if i am going to have the head off... you know.
old harleys go about 20,000-30,000 foor a head job, i dont know what the old yamahas run. i am having no problems with it, just curious.

hoagy
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xsjohn
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PostPosted: December 3, 2009, 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: plastic pieces in the oil

New valve seals and lap the valves..........checking valve tips on intakes for pitting.......(intakes .0025 thou too close should be simi snug .004)......if compression is good (140-150 throttle open) I wouldn't lift the barrels causing a new break in and more wear....clean off carbon......check front to back piston rock when the head is off........tiny bit ok......a lot not good.......

about aligning cam to the new guide in one of my real recent posts..............

xsjohn
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Srinath
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PostPosted: December 4, 2009, 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: plastic pieces in the oil

The ones on the oil filter look like the back side rubber bits out of the starter clutch. Mine was also 1/2 eaten.
That part is under the clutch on the right side, not a motor out job.
Of course the hard chunk is cam chain guide.
Cool.
Srinath.
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hoagy
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PostPosted: December 4, 2009, 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: plastic pieces in the oil

i was was wondering if that could all be from the starter. my starter sometimes sounds like it is trying to chew its way out. so i took the starter out only to find that all the gears on it are steel. but maybe i should look at the starter clutch too.
how does the starter clucth work?

hoagy
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xsleo
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PostPosted: December 5, 2009, 2:08 am    Post subject: Re: plastic pieces in the oil

On the 3-4 gear there is a wish bone shaped spring that gets weak. You can take the right side cover and clutch off to remove the 3-4. remove the spring, squeeze the spring, reinstall. It should take about 5 lbs of pressure minimum to turn the spring on the gears. This will fix the starter noise
When you had the starter out, you saw a gear on the starter. This gear turns gear #1. Gear #1 turns a shaft. On the other endof the shaft is gear # 2. This gear turns the 3 gear. The #3 and #4 gears are on a screw type shaft. The sping keeps the #4 gear from turning with the #3 gear and it slides along the screw type shaft until it engages the gear teeth on the crank. When the teeth engage the engine turns over. With a weak spring the gear won't slide on the shaft as well and the gear grinds on the crank teeth.
The black plastic on the filter is from the front guide. The chain guides are the only place there is any plastic inside the engine.

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hoagy
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PostPosted: December 5, 2009, 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: plastic pieces in the oil

xsjohn wrote:
if compression is good (140-150 throttle open) I wouldn't lift the barrels causing a new break in and more wear

left side compression was 145psi, right side was 135psi. should i worry about the 135?
i have never had a problem with power or smoking. would lapping the valves help improve the compression?

hoagy
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xsleo
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PostPosted: December 6, 2009, 3:25 am    Post subject: Re: plastic pieces in the oil

Your compression is good, the book calls for 145 psi with 10% difference. Your difference is about 6.8% I would try not to lift the jugs unless there was a bad oil leak in the base gasket. Just pull the head, replace the front guide. Put it back together with a new head gasket. Lapping the valves won't hurt, a new cam chain won't hurt either.
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yamakofu
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PostPosted: December 6, 2009, 4:22 am    Post subject: Re: plastic pieces in the oil

Looks like the cam chain guide...I am going to replace mine along with the head gasket which was leaking. One of the last picts on this page may help you get an idea :
web.me.com/yamakofu/he...moved.html
and here is what mikesxs' parts description says:

Guide Stopper (Front cam chain guide bar)
Fits: All TX/XS 650's 1970-84 - OEM Ref.# 256-12231-01
When black plastic bits start showing up in your oil its usually from the guide
bar breaking up due to heat & old age. Replace it as the cam chain will next
start to saw its way thru the aluminum support.

www.mikesxs.net/produc...l#products


But not to freak out... first, consider adjusting your cam chain tension, though this may slow down the wearing... I heard the chain sort of getting at my metal, too late in adjusting the chain tension. I had to replace my leaking headgasket mainly... If you continue to ride with your cam chain adjusted, check for metal bits in your next oil change... I am guessing you are not up to tearing at your engine just right now.
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yamakofu
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PostPosted: December 6, 2009, 4:27 am    Post subject: Re: plastic pieces in the oil

oh and if you adjust your cam chain tension... note if you are relieved of some sound that may be your chain against the metal of the guide...
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hoagy
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PostPosted: December 6, 2009, 11:35 am    Post subject: Re: plastic pieces in the oil

almost ready to take the head off, then i will order parts from mikes. gonna keep running the cam chain thats in there. just gonna lap the valves and clean it all up. i am gonna replace the front guide, maybe the back one too?


hoagy
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yamaman
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PostPosted: December 6, 2009, 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: plastic pieces in the oil

xsjohn wrote:
.....maybe new cam chain at the same time.........xsjohn

Maybe you should put a new cam chain in at the same time!

Also, you can just remove pistons enough to remove the gudgeons & leave the pistons in situ. That way you don't have a drama with rings & you can replace the base gasket & "O" rings

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