Clutch "Squeal" and Snatch pulling out from stop

killer

I've been living with this issue for a few hundred miles since my engine rebuild and its finally annoyed me enough to try to solve it.

Here's the background. I replaced the fiber clutches and the thrust bearing during the recent engine rebuild mid-summer. I was very careful to put the new thrust bearing and washer in the correct way pictured in Mikes instruction. Bearing, then small washer, then large washer. I'm running a one-piece pushrod and the ball is in the right place. Marks on the clutch basket and plate are lined up. The push screw assembly is in good shape, and the whole thing worked well BEFORE I replaced the fiber clutch plates.

When I try to pull out from a stop, I experience what I can best describe as a low "squeal" or a WHIRrRrR noise, and that is accompanied by the clutch tending to snatch. (and nearly stalling the engine if I don't pull the clutch back in quickly) It only makes this noise when I rev the engine a little too much. If I VERY gently rev it just enough to keep it from stalling, and VERY gently leave the clutch out it avoids the noise and does not snatch. (This is a real trick pulling out on a hill.) I used to be able to just rev it and almost dump the clutch with no concerns. I have not changed the type of oil I run (20w-50 GTX). The clutch cable is only a few years old and doesn't appear frayed, and the lever pulls easily. No problems in other gears while moving.

Here's the second part. The clutch lever adjustment when cold is no where close to being correct when hot. I could assume a little thermal growth, but this is more than I experienced before the rebuild. When properly adjusted cold, the clutch will not release when hot. (Which nearly dragged me into an intersection when I took my foot off the brake) So, I've taken to adjusting the clutch hot while riding. To obtain a setting that achieves a reasonable balance between cold and hot, it feels like I don't get much of a gradual dragging between disengaged and engaged. There's no band of gentle engagement where everything begins to grab. It just comes all at once. No problems finding neutral however if adjusted hot. Trying to "feather" the clutch requires intense concentration since the point of engagement changes and is very narrow.

Any ideas before I rip it apart? Does this sound like a sticky cable, or sticking pushrod?

xsjohn

Bearings in the wrong place........thin washer then bearing then large washer.......

on the back of the clutch it's the thin washer against the bearing then the thick washer...

xsjohn

kingwj

Did you scuff the plates before reassembly? Smooth plates can be grabby.

yamaman

You don't mention changing the springs, they are the weakest thing in there, any good heavy duty set should be fine. (I used barnett, they were great)

Also how were the fingers on the basket, too heavily grooved can hold the clutch up. A very light file can sort that out. Not too much with the file though, or you'll end up with excessive transmission snatch as the clutch takes up.

yamaman

I've got mine the way you say John, but Mikes makes a big point of doing it as killer discribes...............Wonder who's right?

www.mikesxs.net/produc...l#products

Just had a look in my Yamaha manual, it shows going from the inside - heading out: thin bearing plate, needle roller bearing, plate 2 (thick washer)

xsjohn

We are right......checked the Original Yamaha manual to boot......wouldn't want that bearing against the ole rough steel hub...

Kinda reminds me of the Lemmings march to the sea.......the one up front says "this is the way to go"...... Surprised

Put 250 miles on my 8-1 today..........you guys just don't know what you're missing................ Very Happy

xsjohn

pippend650 · Full Member Joined: Aug 27, 2009 Posts: 10

Bus Trip to Abilene if you ask me!

killer

Looks like I'm tearing it apart to confirm. Too many variables and I didn't take photographic evidence of the way I did it. I'll also check for grooves in the basket.

jayel

check the Clutch Hub Cush Springs in the back of the basket while you're in there

xjwmx

If you go to "Needle Bearing with Thrust Washer" in Yamaman's link, it seems to be saying the new thin washer is not in the manual. It seems like it would work to put it where Mike says, if you have the original thin washer where it's supposed to be.

killer

Well that makes a little more sense. So effectively Mike's performance thrust bearing is likely thinner than the OEM part.... so you need an additional washer.

xjwmx

Eggsackly!

xsjohn

Think I'll buy Glenn Becks new book............... Laughing

jayel

xsjohn wrote:

Think I'll buy Glenn Becks new book............... Laughing

Cool.... you can have ex-prez shrub read it to you

pamcopete

Killer,

Don't forget this:

www.650motorcycles.com...mbly1.html

xsjohn

Jayel......Maybe reading upside down and backwards reveals a special code......... I have been reading my repair manual that way with good results.... Laughing

xsjohn

yamaman

xjwmx wrote:

If you go to "Needle Bearing with Thrust Washer" in Yamaman's link, it seems to be saying the new thin washer is not in the manual. It seems like it would work to put it where Mike says, if you have the original thin washer where it's supposed to be.

Some manuals showed only 1 washer, this was an error, there should, on all models I believe, be a washer either side. Not sure where Mike is comoing from, weather he's made a mistake, or he really believes it should be so. My Yamaha manual says the way John & I have done it, it works fine, so good enough for me!

xjwmx

My interpretation is with Mike's bearing you need two washers on the outside and one on the inside. He just never mentions the one on the inside. The extra one on the outside is because is bearing is shorter than stock or something.

yamaman

Ok, get what your saying, yeah for sure it's all in the interpretation.
He mentions there (as is correct) that some manuals don't show a washer either side of the bearing, then he shows the second washer, surely if he had a third washer behind the bearing, he'd show or mention it!.........Pretty sure he's got it wrong, though would be good to hear what he's got to say bout it.

killer

Now I'm really confused. I tore it apart with the premise that I followed the pix

showing Bearing, small washer, then big washer. It turns out I had it per the Clymer manual as xsjohn said.

Quote::

xsjohn........thin washer then bearing then large washer.......

The thrust bearings are both the same width, so no chance of an extra washer. The small thrust washers (new one that came with Mike's performance thrust bearing, and the original) are a thousandths width difference. That seems strange to me.

Before taking the center locking nut off the whole basket was able to rock slightly. That doesn't seem right. Should it not be fairly solid with little or no play.

killer

I found two broken springs in the clutch basket assembly. That combined with the slop in the basket on the spacer is enough for me to start looking for a replacement.

I've seen where guys have replaced the springs, with Mikes kit
Part #39-6515
But I haven't seen a replacement bushing for the inside of the basket where it fits over the spacer. I can't imagine that the spacer is worn, its gotta be the brass bushing.

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

Make sure you account for all the pieces, i have seen pics of some horrendous case splitting from those pesky pieces

killer

I can't even pry the broken pieces out, so hopefully no shards have been lost.

killer

Replaced the whole clutch assembly with a different one from a 1980 engine. Just tried it out for a short while tonight. Seems to work just fine.

It really is my favorite bike. Its finally where I've wanted it to be after 10 years of ownership.

What Happened to 650rider.com?

Yamaha xs650