Food for thought

bighamms · Posted: June 18, 2009, 5:43 pm Post subject: Food for thought

sTook my first ever trip to the local chop shop today. Thought I would introduce myself as I envisioned spending many late evenings shooting the sh*t and drinking beer while watching these guys tear em down and build em up. The introduction was short lived...actually it pretty much ended at; "'75 Yamaaaaaa". To which the reply I received was; "We don't work on Jap bikes!" OUCH! I was in the process of cursing their children when I was handed a piece of paper with a name and number. Some guy a few towns over that DOES work on Yammies. So I give the guy a call to ask a few questions (carb calibration, frame mods...you know, the usual). After identifying my year, make and model, this guy proceeds to tell me that this bike is horrible. And that if I were to chop it, i would be destine for a life of turmoil and greif. He also added that his advice was based on years of experience AND the fact that you never see these things modified, ever. Now I'm no Einstein, but I bought my obsession a month ago. For logistical reasons, it wasn't delivered to me until last weekend. Point is that I've had tons of time to research my investment and have dredged the ether and found hundreds of ridiculously cool builds and even more ridiculously cool builders. So I have come to my own conclusion......"Never will I spend late evenings drinking beers with the dbags from the harley shop and I better learn how to fix my bike because the expert at XXX bikes isn't getting my business".

oldbikenut · Posted: June 18, 2009, 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Food for thought

Pretty interesting stuff, maybe this is a sign to keep your 75 stock, as even stock it is quite a looker!

xjwmx · Posted: June 18, 2009, 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: Food for thought

You bought a bike which is for the prestige of working on your own bike. The average Harley shop and the "we only work on American bikes" shops are like Mercedes shops as far as hanging out is concerned. Harley changed their image several years ago, no more greasy fingernails appeal, is all how much did he spend now. Try to visit a Harley boutique sometime. Everything overpriced by same 2 -3x factor - gloves, helmets, bikes Smile

Is the opposite of what you're thinking.

Barbara · Posted: June 18, 2009, 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Food for thought

Hi Guys,

Happily, there are independent little shops left around---where they make money, but only sometimes, and where the guys are more interested in the mechanics of the bike, and not the country of origin.

They are a dying species, but now and then you run across one. I try to patronize these guys whenever I can, since they do represent that wonderful era when people actually sat and talked, and shared experiences and knowledge, and other things that we do on-line now.....

Nothing quite like human contact-ideally in a shop with a grease and oil-soaked floor, a dirty counter with an old piston for an ash-tray (no, I don't smoke, but it's part of the atmosphere), old posters on the walls, and used bikes for sale--some with oil drip pans under the engines.....oh, and one or two of the lights are usually burned out, too, but the 'fridge works, and it has cold beer.

Can it get better than that? Well, yes, actually it can: they can sell Brit parts, too. Ahhh---perfection! Very Happy

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

The Harley Davidson motorcycle is a religious icon, and the religion is materialism. In the fifties and sixties, it was poor boys in dirty clothes with pockets full of wrenches riding around drunk and raising hell with the law. Nobody then rode store-bought motorcycles. You either stole them or built them or built them from stolen parts. Store-bought wasn't cool. In the seventies and eighties, it morphed into dope dealing and organized crime. The criminals got rich and lazy. They started buying new motorcycles and wearing clean clothes. By the nineties, materialism was in full swing. Today you're nobody if you don't make six figures (somehow) and rock a $40,000 bike.

Harley guys used to be fun when I was 16, 18, 20 years old. None of them actually had jobs. The all hustled a living somehow. They stayed drunk, smoked reefer, ate a lot of cartwheels, and were a lot of fun to run with. They were generous with each other. My older brother was a Harley hotshoe.

Jap bikes had a weird effect on them. At the time I was riding an 80 cc Yamaha two-stroke, the Harley boys just laughed when they saw us and treated us like kids (which is what we were, actually). They told us and they told themselves that one day we'd grow up and get REAL motorcycles. Until that time, they were patient with us. They gave us beers and roughed us up good naturedly.

Then Jap bikes got serious. Big triples and quads started tromping Harley asses. The Milwaukee riders took it hard. We were no longer a welcome presence in the roadhouses. You risked a pounding if you tried to buddy with them. By and by, we just quit trying. For a while there, we all waved fingers at each other at stop lights. We didn't have to worry about pissing them off because they couldn't possibly catch up to us.

Things got better over time. A new generation of riders came along. Jap manufacturers started making Harley clones. Then a lot of American companies started making Harley clones. The clones cost as much or more than honest-to-god Harleys. The lines are now so blurred that nobody pays much attention to what you ride any more -- except the Harley yuppies. They pay attention. Like I said, if you can't rock a $40,000 motorcycle and don't look good in designer leathers and jeans, well, you just ain't nobody. They don't beat you up any more, they just ignore you.

In the fifties and sixties, guys like Jay Leno and Dennis Rodman would have got beat up and robbed at Sturgis. Today, all the riders suck up to them. What's coming next, I wonder?

xjwmx · Posted: June 18, 2009, 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: Food for thought

Barb, you could use a road trip to a town with a population of about 100. I was there earlier in the week. Damn if I wasn't almost playing checkers.

nudude53 · Posted: June 18, 2009, 10:30 pm Post subject: Re: Food for thought

When somebody from the "mid life crisis dressed in leather in the middle of summer" Harley crowd tells me I need to buy a Harley I simply tell them that I will when they can start making a good piano.

The last payment that I made on my bike was at the gas pump, and the guys that appreciate these bikes are the ones that haven't made a payment on their Harley for 20 or 30 years. They are always asking us to ride along with them. (they know we carry tools)

dpmphoto · Posted: June 18, 2009, 11:19 pm Post subject: Re: Food for thought

When I decided to ride on the road again I went researching bikes I wanted, I decided on a fixer upper cause I've always enjoyed the satisfaction when your done.I always liked the looks of an older triumph;however I couldn't afford one nor could I afford parts and there not very reliable i was told.I found the xs and the sr one day on ebay the xs looked like a triumph and I always rode yamaha off road so I figured they would be reliable. Then I found the building a better twin article among others and had to get one.A few days ago I went to get it inspected,inspections are from 3-5 first come first served so there's always a group waiting,I had more people looking at it and asking questions than any other bike there.I'm proud to ride my xs and when I see and hear some of these harley people(some not all) I laugh to myself and wonder how such a weak minded soul hasn't killed themselves yet riding a motorcycle.I'm a hardcore biker because I've ridden since i was ten and started working on them shortly after,not because I can afford 40 dollar tee shirts from every town harley shop I visit or cause I have good credit. I bet a lot of you guys and gals in here are hardcore also not because your wearing leather chaps or can afford every snap on chrome extra, but because you love to ride work on or build an Xs.If someone said here's 20 grand go buy a bike I would buy 5 or 6 xs basket cases a new triumph thruxton(beautiful Old school cafe) and donate the rest to the spca.

Barbara · Posted: June 19, 2009, 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Food for thought

Hi Guys,

Funny about visiting a town of about 100---the nearest town to where I live has about 100 people, give or take. I love small towns, and the little "hobby" bike shop is a part of that way of life. It's like my shed: I'll never make a dime of profit out there, but it pays for the hobby, and is a neat place to hang out: two XS's and a bunch of parts, a Triumph twin, an old Yam dirt-bike, half done, and four BSA singles, and tons of Brit parts, plus all the tools I can find, whether I need them or not, and of course a 'fridge. I've got BSA and Triumph posters on the walls from the late 1960's and early 1970's, and and old Siegler oil heater in a corner. Until I got divorced the first time, my then Brother-in-law's 1960 Panhead sat out there with the other bikes.

Sitting on one of the benches is a piston I found under a shop after a big flood--from some antique tractor, about four inches across (seriously), six inches long, with a con rod of at least a foot. Perched on top of the con rod is a piston from a Honda 50 that I replaced.....pretty cute contrast.

I ride with a bunch of women who ride for fun: we have everything from a Harley to mondo-killer "metric" bikes (huge Suzuki V-twin things) to an Aprilia, to my XS with the sidecar.....guess who gets the looks? Yep. Right past the brand new baggers to the old vertical twin and chair. I love it!

(And yes, I know the Italian bike is misspelled, but I don't care enough to go find out how to spell it.....) Very Happy

So I'm wondering how the "Bad-azz" HD riders keep from smiling when they are riding.....I can't help it, I grin. I love movement on two (or three) wheels, and the feeling of the sun or rain and of covering ground. How does one manage to scowl and look all mean and nasty on a bike? It must really take concentration to not enjoy the trip......

Enough babbling. Anyone on any bike is always welcome in my shed, two miles outside a tiny little western Washington town.....even a scowling Harley rider---as long as he behaves. Laughing

gordonscott · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 304

Hey "jimmythetrucker" reading a lot of what you said just brought back so many old memories Smile

I was a "riceburner" kid in a world of American and britt iron and can relate to a lot of what you wrote, At the time we were all serious and sh!t, defending our choice of scoot, now I look back and just have to Laughing

bighamms · Posted: June 19, 2009, 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: Food for thought

Just wanted to chime in....Started this post with an observation and a realization. Reading all of these comments confirms my suspicion.... I didn't just buy a commuter, i bought into the little family of fanatics that appear to be as diverse and eclectic as the bikes they build. I must admit, it feels good...GOOOD!

jayel · Posted: June 19, 2009, 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Food for thought

and like any family we fight amongst ourseleves, and god help you if you step in-between us Laughing

xsleo · Posted: June 20, 2009, 3:20 am Post subject: Re: Food for thought

I don't agree with jimmy's asumption all the early riders stole or built from stolen parts.
ost of the early riders were GI's coming back from the wars. Most had a little money and bought their bikes, either new or from police departments as they replaced the old with new.
A lot of them removed any thing that didn't make it go or stop.
There were some bikes either stolen or built from stolen parts, but not many. No more so than now.

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

xsleo wrote:

I don't agree with jimmy's asumption all the early riders stole or built from stolen parts.
ost of the early riders were GI's coming back from the wars. Most had a little money and bought their bikes, either new or from police departments as they replaced the old with new.
A lot of them removed any thing that didn't make it go or stop.
There were some bikes either stolen or built from stolen parts, but not many. No more so than now.

It isn't an assumption. It's a fact of my experience. If you know it or if you don't all depends on who you used to hang with, I guess. The guys I knew when I was a kid were all too young to have been WWII vets. My brother, for example, was born in 1933. It was him and his friends (and his enemies) that I knew when I was a boy eight, ten, twelve years old. They stole motorcycles. They stole cars. They did burglaries and sometimes even stickups. They were mighty rough boys when they felt put-upon, and they had no use for cops whatever.

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

jimmythetrucker wrote:

The Harley Davidson motorcycle is a religious icon, and the religion is materialism. In the fifties and sixties, it was poor boys in dirty clothes with pockets full of wrenches riding around drunk and raising hell with the law. Nobody then rode store-bought motorcycles. You either stole them or built them or built them from stolen parts. Store-bought wasn't cool. In the seventies and eighties, it morphed into dope dealing and organized crime. The criminals got rich and lazy. They started buying new motorcycles and wearing clean clothes. By the nineties, materialism was in full swing. Today you're nobody if you don't make six figures (somehow) and rock a $40,000 bike.

der?

Xsleo, It was jtt's crowd that was stealing off the Gi's. ........mind you someone had to buy them first, so those that couldn't afford, or didn't have respect for other people's property, could borrow them permanently...

Where i grew up if a Harley was considered as your bike of choice then a vault had to be built into the house so as the Harley remained in your possession, Triumphs as well though not as bad for theft....a Jap crap (so to speck) was safe as the bikies would have nothing to do with them.......Mainly bikies were the bane of the British and then Harley bikes

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

There you go again, 650skull -- talking BS about people you don't know and never knew.

So tell us all, Swami Skull: What do you think it means when they call somebody an "outlaw" biker? Do you know what a 1 percenter is? Do you know any 1 percenters? I think you should maybe go and find one and tell him what you think of criminals who have "no respect for other people's property". That would be a good experience for you, I think.

But then until we learn better we all are what are or -- as a fellow named Garrison Keillor puts it -- No matter where you go, there you are. Enjoy yourself. Be my guest.

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

Somebody help me out here!

When I quit reading EasyRiders Magazine back in the early eighties, there was an argument going on in the "Letters" column about how to qualify for a "1%" patch. The way I remember it, one guy was for a minimum of three federal felony convictions and ten years in prison. Another argued for three felony ASSAULT convictions. The third said it should be a single conviction for Murder One or 20 years in a federal joint, whichever came first.

Does anybody know how all of that played out?

Barbara · Posted: June 20, 2009, 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Food for thought

Well, Jimmy, being totally subjective, in my experience and observation, the actual 1%ers lived by the slogan, "Bike Thieves Die". However, there was a reason that every time the Stater's pulled over anyone wearing colors, they ran all the numbers they could find---there was a lot of bike theft going on. This was in the 1960's when everything was a tad bit strange.

The generation that fought WWII--my parents generation--had, in the experience of my father, higher standards, and it was that generation that spawned the so-called "outlaw" bike rider---one who did not belong to the AMA. They came down hard on bike thieves.

As for people who insist on felony convictions to wear a patch, I guess that's fine--they can proudly show it off in their little barred rooms, courtesy of the Fed.

How did we get on this....?

gordonscott · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 304

“There are three sides to every story, your side, my side and the truth, and no one is lying. Experiences shared serve each other differently” Robert Evans

oldbikenut · Posted: June 20, 2009, 11:06 am Post subject: Re: Food for thought

I've hesitated in responding to this thread, though I must say I find it very interesting as for the different points of views. Obviously everyone grew up different and had different experiences and what was common to one maybe something that was maybe just heard by another or totally foriegn, who knows? I find Jimmys points of view very interesting, though it's not mine and I have no basis to agree or disagree.

Now back to the original subject. I really like most every type of bike. At this time I only own Japanese, I would love to have a Harley, triumph, BSA and the list could go on for a long time. I have a friend that when I met him for the first time we found that we had motorcycles in common, now this guy is a true harley guy with a Indian or two as well, I told him what I have and his exact quote to me was, I don't care what you ride as long as you ride, now this quote has probably been out there for quite sometime, but that was the first time I had heard it.

Shops have every right to work on what they know and probably enjoy working on. These guys were nice enough to give you a lead as to a possible fix for your situation. The second guy sounded like he obviously had in the past a bad experience with an XS or something. Keep up the search, you will find there are some real helpful and knowledgable people out there.

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

Jtt wrote; The Harley Davidson motorcycle is a religious icon, and the religion is materialism. In the fifties and sixties, it was poor boys in dirty clothes with pockets full of wrenches riding around drunk and raising hell with the law. Nobody then rode store-bought motorcycles. You either stole them or built them or built them from stolen parts. Store-bought wasn't cool. In the seventies and eighties, it morphed into dope dealing and organized crime. The criminals got rich and lazy. They started buying new motorcycles and wearing clean clothes. By the nineties, materialism was in full swing. Today you're nobody if you don't make six figures (somehow) and rock a $40,000 bike.
Harley guys used to be fun when I was 16, 18, 20 years old. None of them actually had jobs. The all hustled a living somehow. They stayed drunk, smoked reefer, ate a lot of cartwheels, and were a lot of fun to run with. They were generous with each other. My older brother was a Harley hotshoe.
It isn't an assumption. It's a fact of my experience. If you know it or if you don't all depends on who you used to hang with, I guess. The guys I knew when I was a kid were all too young to have been WWII vets. My brother, for example, was born in 1933. It was him and his friends (and his enemies) that I knew when I was a boy eight, ten, twelve years old. They stole motorcycles. They stole cars. They did burglaries and sometimes even stickups. They were mighty rough boys when they felt put-upon, and they had no use for cops whatever. [Unquote]

Skull Wrote; Xsleo, It was jtt's crowd that was stealing off the Gi's. ........mind you someone had to buy them first, so those that couldn't afford, or didn't have respect for other people's property, could borrow them permanently... [unquote]

jtt wrote; There you go again, 650skull -- talking BS about people you don't know and never knew.
So tell us all, Swami Skull: What do you think it means when they call somebody an "outlaw" biker? Do you know what a 1 percenter is? Do you know any 1 percenters? I think you should maybe go and find one and tell him what you think of criminals who have "no respect for other people's property". That would be a good experience for you, I think. [unquote]

As for knowing thieves, bikers, bank robbers, and hit men i haven't gone into that part of my life and have no intention to go there.

I apologize jtt i thought your friends and brother were the ones you were writing about above, and the ones i were referring to as having no respect.............I guess i was wrong so again i apologize for upsetting your sensibilities jtt so let this be the end as you have my apology

Teebs · Full Member Joined: Aug 26, 2008 Posts: 255

lol This thread is entertaining as hell.

Skull, I think you had him spot on. I'm pretty sure he was talking about his brother and his friends.

I also think there are probably plenty of us out here that could talk about our misspent youth and our past and/or present criminal associations, who choose not to for one reason or another. So, I hear you there.

As far as the 1%ers, in my experience they're all pretty much stupid and unstable. Anybody who chooses a life living on the fringe has had the misfortune of run-ins with the law, but only an idiot would brag about being incarcerated multiple times.

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

Skull & Teebs -- I understand you guys don't like thieves and muggers. And I appreciate your sensitivity.

What stymies me, though, is how come if you guys don't like people like that, how come you build choppers and dress rough like outlaw bikers and spend money in tattoo shops and stuff like that? I mean, the guys you claim you don't like all rode choppers and had tattoos and dressed rough like bikers. So how come you and your generation have picked up on so much of what they did?

y brother was an outlaw until he got married at the age of 30. He straightened out after that. I started riding when I was 12 and, except for the past few years (during which time my health failed me and I went busto because I couldn't work any more) I've ridden for nearly all of my life. I knew those guys. I used to play with them when I was a little kid. But I was never an outlaw biker. I never owned a Harley Davidson T shirt. I never joined a club, so I never had a set of originals, and there ain't one tattoo on my entire body -- even after I spent 4 years in the Marines. I've never owned a chopper and never tried to build one. I always thought they were stupid because they ride so rough and they don't go very fast. But you guys LIKE all that outlaw stuff. You wanna look like the people you say you despise. I'm sorry but I just don't get it.

Another thing I don't get is your attitude toward "criminals." Mick Jagger famously sang that "every cop is a criminal and all the sinners are saints." Everybody who has ever been a criminal long enough to think of themselves as a criminal (Yup. I'm a criminal. I've been a criminal one way or another ever since I was 10.) all know Mick called it right. The dirty little secret about criminals is that most criminals are people, too. In fact, cops may be the only REAL criminals because the cops all do crime every day of their lives but spend their lives trying to convince themselves and others they're really good honest people just like you, skull & teebs.

All of that being said and being so (I take it you're both truthful about being honest, upright people who never hang out with lowlifes like me), the way it looks to me at this point in my life is: I've always been a criminal but never been a sociopath. Guys like you have always been sociopaths but never been criminals.

I can understand a criminal trying to look straight. I mean common sense says nobody wants to get arrested, and every defense attorney knows about the cops' famous "scumbag-dirtball theory of crime detection." But I can't understand guys like yourselves -- guys who claim to be upright, do-goody, members of society -- why do you want to dress up like criminals and ride around on machines that make you look like a menace to society?

Jeeminers Whiskey! Life is strange.

nj1639 · Posted: June 20, 2009, 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: Food for thought

nudude53 wrote:

When somebody from the "mid life crisis dressed in leather in the middle of summer" Harley crowd tells me I need to buy a Harley I simply tell them that I will when they can start making a good piano.

The last payment that I made on my bike was at the gas pump, and the guys that appreciate these bikes are the ones that haven't made a payment on their Harley for 20 or 30 years. They are always asking us to ride along with them. (they know we carry tools)

One of my work buds kinda fits the mid life crisis Harley rider, though a little on the practical side. He's got a used '93 Heritage Softail but does get the Hundred Dollar accessories at the Harley shop.

I asked him to ride along on the 4 lane out of town and give me speed readings to check my speedometer. So you know how it goes, ride steady and then hold the hand up to signify speed, acknowledge that one and then increase to the next.

Pretty well satisfied that either his or my clock was whacked, I signed 'good enough'. At that point he shouted "mundasanilukinbug!"
I raised my head up with a somewhat Elvis snarl implying I didn't understand.
To which he replied "mundasanilukinbug!"
At this point I slowed down and moved a bit closer to his lane and asked him to repeat please, to which he responded with "Man, that's a nice lookin' bike!"
Yeah, I'm smilin', my rats a good lookin' bike, the Harley guy said so. Ha!

What Happened to 650rider.com?

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