Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

nudude53 · Posted: June 23, 2009, 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

GS:
We're about 100 miles east of Mooresville, and there's a good joint to hang out at just about 1/2 way between here and there. Would be a good place to meet up, cold beer, good grub and maybe even a bikini bikewash. If I can ever find it again that is. Embarassed

Gotta love those airheads, here's one that's been slowly coming together in our shop over the last two years, built totally from scratch with nothing but ebay parts. The goal is classic styling with modern cafe flavor.

gordonscott · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 304

Nudude, I should know soon if I'm heading down, if so I would love to hook up for a drinkie Smile

I will not be on an xs but I'll still be on two wheels Very Happy

gordonscott · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 304

Ok, back to sidecar Laughing

I have set this thing up six ways to Sunday now, re-aligning the sidecar, droping the fork tubes in tree's a little, bla bla bla ... To ansewr Barb from earlier we do have bad roads out here in new england, also they can crown either way. Just as I leave my road the fist turn is a wide 90 to the left, but the road chamber is facing down! Opposite of what you want! When taking this corner for the first time I could not help but think of those hi-banks on the roundy rounds, banking is good but not when it’s opposite of what you need. Now Barb, you will relate to this, just imagine that same turn coming home turning right with the banking facing down! Real trouble, real fast. That chair already want's to fly never mind the road leaning the wrong way. Also all are roads are hills and curves, nirvana on two wheels but with sidecar you get tired fast with passenger. Which leads me to this next point, without a passenger I would be good to go at least for the season and worrie about front end later, but all my troubles are with weight in the car and cannot find a happy place between passenger and empty chair even with out the sinking suspension. With passenger it just shows all of sidecarings quirks a lot more, pulling to the right under acceleration, pushing to the left under braking, and follows road chamber like it’s on rails. I’ve done all I can within reason and now its time to leave reason behind. Now if you will excuse me I have to go sell all my worldly possessions and maybe even my soul so I can buy one of these… I’ll just cut a check once a month and “buy cool” like the r.u.b.’s do "sombody stop me! p.s. Sorry “rich urban bikers” just a friendly polk Laughing

Barbara · Posted: June 25, 2009, 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Hi Gordon,

Hate those road crowns--and yet---I hate riding in puddles of water, too. Oh, I ran across an ad for the leading link front end I had on the BSA: Van Tech. I haven't googled it, but I have pictures in an old Motorcyclist mag from 1967 or 1968, and I was impressed with the bearings in the tree, when I removed it from the bike to sell. Very stout.

I know that feeling of getting tired, especially with a passenger. My shoulders would look like a weight lifter if I took steroids or something. I really do get tired from pushing or pulling on the handlebars, but it's worth it.

Pretty cool pictures, btw. I'd have to sell my kid and grandkids to get the down payment, though, so I think I'll stick with old an cute.......just like me! (Well, old anyway...)

I do like those hi-tech chairs, though....

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

I have linked this through the vault................great reading and never having had a chair i have come to appreciate the complexities of running one......i would love to see more photos of your bike on some of your excursions Barb.

gordonscott · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 304

"650skull" wrote "i would love to see more photos of your bike on some of your excursions Barb" I second that Wink

post some photos Barb if you would be so kind Very Happy

I don't have any new but here is one of my test rides when I was first "bolting" this rig together. I will do a video soon of some "flying the chair" and other neat sidecar tricks Very Happy

gordonscott · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 304

taking the neighborhood kids for rides with nervous parents on the side waiting for the safe return of there little ones. (they have seen me ride Rolling Eyes

) p.s notice how low I originaly had this rig, the front end I modified a while back for another project, a low but very stiff front end.

gordonscott · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 304

one more picture while we are talking about "flying the chair" Cool

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

Got me buggered why you have that extra wheel Gordon Laughing

nudude53 · Posted: June 27, 2009, 12:08 am Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

650skull wrote:

Got me buggered why you have that extra wheel Gordon Laughing

No kickstand needed! Twisted Evil

gordonscott · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 304

"no kickstand needed" That is one benefit Very Happy

much easier at the gas station too; with the wife she can just sit there. The reality is you are looking at the last desperate attempt of a 30+year rider to stay on the road with his wife. A while back I was hit by lightning and have suffered all types of problems since, the worst of it being anxiety and debilitating panic attacks. I also had a bad streak where it seamed everyone around me was crashing and getting hurt or killed (I’ve lost WAY to many friends to the motorcycle over the years). A couple of years ago while riding with my wife, her sister and brother in law went down beside us on an interstate, it was not something I can get out of my head, my wife and sister look a lot alike so as I approached the scene I could not help but picture that as my wife on the ground, this was the preverbal straw. It’s not one incident that has brought me to this lowly state of affairs but a combination of them. I know a sidecar is not going to save my or my wife’s lives (literally) but it makes me feel more stable when she rides with me. Two up with me and I get anxiety bad, our bike is a Victory tc and is tall and heavy (800lbs+) this does not help the situation. I can still ride solo ok because it’s only my life I have to worry about not someone I love. I’ve never known life without them? It would just mean no more riding with my wife any real distance and can't leave her behind. P.S. I just read this over and almost deleted it, nothing like getting personal with a bunch of strangers. But I am not going to, I will leave it just in case someone else is having familiar problems riding for whatever there own reasons, you are not alone Wink

5twins · Full Member Joined: Aug 05, 2006 Posts: 1616

I did leave the centerstands in place on my rigs as it aided in rear tire changes. Which, by the way, happen more often than on a solo machine. We should probably discuss suitable tires here.

Since you don't lean anymore, a rounded profile with nice side tread really isn't needed anymore. A more squared off tread, like the Dunlop K70 style is more what you need, on the rear anyway. I always ran just a normal motorcycle front tire. There are specific sidecar tires made but they can be hard to find. I think Avon makes one. They're squared off and resemble a car tire more than a bike one.

gordonscott · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 304

Hi 5twins, I have been looking at these tires, they are from coker for vintage cars but should mount up fine as size is correct for rim. I would run them front and rear, what do you think?

5twins · Full Member Joined: Aug 05, 2006 Posts: 1616

Wow, those look like great tires for a sidecar. You can get them in a 3.25-19 and a 16 for your rear? What about an 18 for a Standard rear wheel? Got a link to someplace that sells them? I'd like to get a better look.

gordonscott · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 304

5twins, yes I could get both 19" front and 16" for the rear, they make them both, but I will be running 16" front and rear I think Twisted Evil

here is a link store.coker.com/500-52...-tire.html

gordonscott · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 304

REDUCING TRAIL: You will have to excuse me for jumping all over the place with this thread but you are reading this as it plays out. I’ve been doing a lot of reading on the pros and cons of different options I have to reduce the trail so I can turn this outfit easier. Leading link, raked trees, adaptor plates to move wheel and brakes forward, raked cups? There are many ways to skin a cat, these all reduce trail and make turning less of a chore. All methods mention other then the leading link use the stock telescoping fork front end. I will tell you I am leaning for the leading link! Leading links are stronger then telescopic forks laterally, I could use a 16”on front, not much or no diving during braking. There are down sides though I’m sure, remember sidecars force you into a “world of compromise” Any thoughts on this reducing trail Question

yamaman · Posted: June 29, 2009, 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Have you played around with wider bars? The bigger the tiller, the easier to push! Plus raise the forks up through the triple trees a heap & get that steering damper earning its money!

5twins · Full Member Joined: Aug 05, 2006 Posts: 1616

Here's a link to a page on the BMW Earles fork. If you're going to try to make one, this might be the simplest to copy .....

jeffdean2.home.att.net...s-fork.htm

With a junk 650 frame, you could scrounge the rear swingarm and it's pivot points, upper shock mounts (or just use plate w/ holes like the Earles), various tubes, etc. You could use a stock lower front tree and just build down from that.

gordonscott · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 304

yamaman wrote:

Have you played around with wider bars? The bigger the tiller, the easier to push! Plus raise the forks up through the triple trees a heap & get that steering damper earning its money!

I did one better and used a shorted front end! posted a picture a few back. With the same rear shocks and the droped front end that dampener was earning it's keep Laughing

I think I'm going to have to reduce trail if I'm going to be happy with this thing, by myself no problem but thats not why I bought it Wink

Like I said in the begining, we have a tendencey to bolt on sidecars here in the states (for the most part) and over the big pond they have complete rigs, and the more time I spend with this thing the more I know why Rolling Eyes

subframes, leading links, stiffend frames! they got it going on Smile

gordonscott · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 304

5twins wrote:

Here's a link to a page on the BMW Earles fork. If you're going to try to make one, this might be the simplest to copy .....

jeffdean2.home.att.net...s-fork.htm

With a junk 650 frame, you could scrounge the rear swingarm and it's pivot points, upper shock mounts (or just use plate w/ holes like the Earles), various tubes, etc. You could use a stock lower front tree and just build down from that.

I have a frame with no title and a few swingarms around incuding a tx750 Very Happy

But I also could make it from scratch, bearings/bushings are what I need to figure out. I would just use mild steel dom not 4130 as I don't want to deal with the issues of properly welding chromoly. From what I have read .188 wall should do it with the most popular designs, my bender is at it's limits with this wall tube so I will do a little more research before I deside on tube size. p.s. All you saftey nut's calm down, I have a 130amp mig I got at home depot, should be fine Laughing

Barbara · Posted: June 29, 2009, 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Hi Guys,

This is an interesting juxtaposition of ways to go about sidecar riding/building. I don't have the knowledge--or the tools--to build a leading link fork. Just not gonna happen, so I had to play with what I had, essentially stock front forks and Triumph shocks on the rear.

So after bolting it up, and fabricating some modified mounts--it came from a Harley--I took her for a ride and immediately went right back into the shed for modifications. My only options are adjusting lean-out and toe-in, and getting as close to "good" as I can. I can't count the number of times I adjusted things, especially lean-out.

The other thing I tried involved weights in the chair. I tried to approximate the weight of my camping gear, and I keep a weight behind the seat, so the handling is about the same---depending, as we've mentioned, on the road crown, and you can't do much about that.

So it is really neat to read about actual machining and fabricating of gear to make things smooth and easier. I'd love to be there and watch, and it would be *great* to ride an outfit equipped with leading link forks, just to see the difference.

On a slightly different note, I'm finally getting a digital camera, so I should be able to post pictures soon. Be fun to see the spectrum from cobbled-up to designed and fabricated..... Very Happy

gordonscott · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 304

Hey Barb! I never really tried moving the sidecar wheel lead back some!!!! If it’s too far forward it’s going to make it hard to turn! My setup is real steady on the left hand turns and that is probably because I have significant wheel lead. If I move it back it won’t be as stable in the left turns (compromise) but would turn easier. I did think of this at first but got side tracked with the pulling to the right. Now that I have that problem some what under control I should have went back to basics but got all caught up in leading links. I’m not out of the woods, I’m sure I will be making the front end, reducing trail is still needed I just have to try this to see the difference, keep you posted.

xsleo · Posted: July 1, 2009, 4:10 am Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

An xs1100 tree has less offset from the stem forward to the fork tubes. Would this give you less trail?

gordonscott · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 304

Hey Leo, great minds think alike Laughing

Unfortunately the xs1100 tree’s would increase trail because the legs that go with them have a leading axle to compensate and they are 36mm I believe? Other wise I could have just swap out 650 tubes. Any body here an xs1100 expert?

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