New guy, new bike, new problems....

Micah · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 11

Hey all!!! I've been cruising around this board as a silent onlooker for a few months now, dreaming of my turn to own one of these fabulous machines that have captured my heart! I've been wanting to build a bar rat for awhile now and I've found the perfect incarnation in these bikes... SO... I looked and looked and finally found one for sale nearby with a rolling frame for $850 so I scraped my finances together(working high school grad father, means not a lot of cash) and picked it up this weekend. After tearing down the carbs and putting them in a cleaning soak, and installing a new battery(red wires doesn't always mean its NOT the ground, btw, took me awhile to figure out why i kept frying a fuse! :P) I got it to fire up! It sounds good, no rattling, but it is smoking A LOT!!! I'm pretty sure I ruined my neighbors bbq(they hate me anyway!) with how much it was pouring out of the exhaust. It's all white, but with how much there was, I'm finding it hard to think its just old fuel and gunk in the lines from burn off... Any ideas or hints to the newbie? Any fingers pointed in the right direction would be greatly appeiciated!
icah

xs1961

Its been stood idle/stored for a while? If so Id bet on either the valve seals have gone hard/shrunk or the piston rings have 'glued' to the grooves..Try pouring some diesel down the (warm)bores to soak overnight and in the morning kick it all out of the plug holes , be sure to change the oil soon after 'cos it'll be diesel contaminated ..
Did the previous owner hint the bike was a smoker ?

rhilker

Did you change the oil first? If it's been sitting in the bike....

Micah · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 11

No I haven't changed the oil yet, just topped it off to see if it would start up alright. It's really smoking on the left side more than the right?

nudude53

!!!!CHANGE THAT OIL!!!!
As long as the bike has been sitting it has broken down and is worthless, it may as well have maple syrup it it. After that run some Marvel Mystery Oil in the gas, about 4 ounces to the full tank and about a pint in the oil. That will loosen things up. If not you may be looking at a ring job or new valve seals.

c1skout · Full Member Joined: Sep 10, 2008 Posts: 29

Is that a '75? Looks like a nice, complete, original bike.

Micah · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 11

Yup, It's a '75! Very Happy

I'm planning on chopping her up, but after reading into these bikes so much for the last few months and seeing how good a restored XS can look, I'm half tempted to shine her up instead... but I doubt I'll be able to resist hacking her apart for long! Twisted Evil

nudude53

If you want one to hack up find an old beater. Those '75's look sweet restored.

nj1639

I wouldn't change anything that couldn't be put back on that one, or any of them.
Be smart, work on engine performance first, then the cosmetics.

Micah · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 11

Maybe but I doubt i'll leave her stock for long. I chose this deal so I could ride it this summer while I chop on the other frame, so when I get it pieced together I can throw the motor in it! Very Happy

Teebs · Full Member Joined: Aug 26, 2008 Posts: 255

Micah,

You've made yourself a pariah already! lol. Prepare for the ridicule to commence. If you would like guilt-free advice on chopping your xs, you might want to try thechopperunderground.

You should have lied and told these guys you were going to restore her to perfect stock condition... your days are numbered.... Very Happy

xs1961

Cut it up & sell the standard parts you dont need for nearly as much as you paid for the complete bike! Twisted Evil

Micah · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 11

Yeah, that would be nice if I could get some cash from the stock parts to help push this project along faster! Smile

xs1961

Exactly what I did this week, Ebayed most parts, they paid for my new patio Im laying, all I kept was the engine & frame which will do me for a long-term project ... Cool

...come try and find me you stock resto' blokes...hehe

(the Vintage Jap Motorcycle Club GB put a price on my head years ago ! LOL)

XSiveAl

Hey Micah,
I wouldn't worry too much about what people think of cutting 'em. True.. there's a limited number of original frames.. 72's - 76's are way neat.. and restored they're a head turner.. but it's all about individual taste and opinion...if it turns out cool enough even they skeptics will like it too and plus: it pushes the price of them stockers up Wink

what's really imortant is you don't try running it again until you get all the crap out of it and get things cleaned up right,. you could do serious damage. penetrating oil helps lots of things diesel fuel will too.. very important to change the oil though because the solvents will thin it and wear out your bearings quickly.

oil down the top end with product of choice.. through the plug holes and down the valve stems.. remove the carbs and the pipes and oil the exposed stems of the valves then let it sit overnight... turn the engine over by hand using the bolt at the alternator.. spray again.. let sit..change the oil... try running again to get it hot... let it sit... change the oil.. repeat until you reach a conclusion.

-use clean gas in a clean tank to rule out water vapour or contamination
-check your ignition circuit to ensure you're getting the hottest sparks you can.
-do a compression test and a leakdown test before you pull it apart or have someone help you with this it could save you a lot of time and frustration and guessing in the end.

the white smoke.. is probably oil.. if it pours whitish from the front of your motor.. right out of the head.. and out of the exhaust.. it's guides or seals.. or both. I learned this the hard way. It could be water vapour also... air freely flows in and out of the motor and the condensation gets trapped and will not burn or compress.. as the oil heats up the vapour comes out of everywhere. scared the crap outta me., if it's bluish and out of your pipes only,.. it's probably rings or your bore.

they have a steel cylinder.. compression rings may corrode and possibly stick/scrape your bore on start-up. Penetrating oil into the cylinders and into the tappet covers, down the valve stems, gets everything slippery first. if the cyl. is corroded at all or has a ridgeline of rust.. get a machinist to bore them. you can use the ring gap measurements in three or four positions in your cyl. to tell you if the bore is servicable if it is clean and corrosion free.

The motor likely was sitting with one or more valves down in the cylinder.. they tend to corrode inside the cylinder and then when you turn em over.. scraaatch... need new guides.. maybe.. mine did. Get a manual, dissasemble it yourself, you can get a good idea of the condition of things just looking at where the oil or gas varnish traces run to before you clean it up. tells you where gaskets were leaking and if you look closely you can tell if oil was running down your valves too. If you take your valves out, be sure to deburr the top of the stem outside the guide before you slide it out.. any burrs or sharp edges will cut the %^&!! out of your guides. Very fine emery paper works well for this. clean it up good and reoil before you let them fall out.

if valves wiggle in their guides.. (check them closed, halfway open, and open) have a machinist determine if you can salvage the guides or valves or just opt to replace both guides and valves for good insurance. a machinist'll do it all for you for around 200 dollars if you bring them the parts.. may as well freshen it up while it's open. some guys can do this at home.. but driving the guide guide in perfectly in order to maintain cocentricity of valve face and seat is reportedly nearly impossible without proper equipment.. I'd like to figure out a backyard trick for this one for sure.

If the carb is set waaaaay too rich ( totally wrong jetting) it'll smoke too,.. it's a greyish white smoke and smells acrid. but it's noticeably different from burning or evaporating oil smoke.

chance are if it's smoking relentlessly.. you're gonna learn to tear it down. but that's good, cause it's easy, you can do it yourself many times if you have to, the guys online will help,. and you can avoid most of the ridiculous shop charges.

you've got a great looking pile of parts there.. can't wait to see what you do with 'em.. keep us posted

-XSiveAl

Micah · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 11

Well for what its worth to all the XS zealots out there, after I'm done I'll have at least one left over frame thanks to this puppy! Wink

Teebs · Full Member Joined: Aug 26, 2008 Posts: 255

lol Saw the length of XSiveAl's post and thought I started something. Glad I didn't as it was all tongue-in-cheek.

Happier to see it was all good, solid advice.

xs1961

yamalama · Full Member Joined: Nov 14, 2008 Posts: 26

Micah, you might try spraying some WD 40 on the valves and stems, and pour alittle marvel mystery oil in the cylinders. let this soak for about two days, respraying the valves every day. kick the bike over a few times during this time with the plugs out. do not run the bike in this condition, change your oil, and please dont thin it down with any additives. Ray

Micah · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 11

Okay, so I pulled my covers off and used penetrating oil on the stems for two days in a row and down the plug holes, lightly turning it over a couple of times during the process to work it in... added a little Marvel to it, and started it up after 2 and a half days of sitting with the oil loosening things up... and it still is blowing tons of smoke! I pulled the new plug out and it has oil on it... Please tell me it's just an inexpensive valve seal job, that isn't too complicated?! I bought the bike because it ran! The PO says it was doing fine the last time he fired it up??

Micah · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 11

And I know some of you are going to verbally kill me for this, but I still have NOT changed the oil... I know, I know... I'm an idiot. But I'm also a dirt poor idiot. I DO PLAN to change it in the immediate future, but for now I'm just looking for the cause of my problem, and after adding a quart of new oil, and a pint of Marvel, I figured I'd be safe to slide by for now, until I can positively identify the problem. No? Or would changing the oil REALLY make a huge difference and stop it from leaking (Down OR Up) into the cylinder?

nudude53

It's your engine, treat it how ever you please.

Teebs · Full Member Joined: Aug 26, 2008 Posts: 255

You put penetrating oil in the plug holes... that might be why it's blowing smoke and there is oil on the plugs, depending on how much you used, how long it ran...

I know you're itching to see it running, but proper lubrication could mean the difference between minor problems and a total overhaul. That oil is broken down, which means it has no lubricating function at all, as nudude already told you. It should have been the first thing you did, before even trying to start it. What is the cost of some oil compared to that of a rebuilt engine?

I'm not really sure what the point is of asking the advice of people with more knowledge than you and then once receiving it, promptly ignoring it.

xsleo

Even as dirt poor as I am a coulpe quarts of oil is only about $6. Also pulling the sump plate and cleaning the filter screen mounted on it is a good idea, looking close at the crud on that filter screen can tell alot about the engine. Cleaning the filter screen in the right side cover shoul be done too, same reasons.

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