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Blackbird
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Joined: May 13, 2009
Posts: 20
Location: Detroit
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 Posted: June 5, 2009, 1:54 pm Post subject: 2 up riding ... |
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| I do a lot of 2 up riding. Does anyone have a perfect sprocket ratio (combo) that reduces the strain on the XS?
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xsjohn
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Joined: Jul 30, 2006
Posts: 5857
Location: North Carolina USSA
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| Posted: June 5, 2009, 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: 2 up riding ... |
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Too much compresson on these to be real good at pulling down at a reasonable rpm without complaints......these were designed to rev but suck at it with all the vibes........catch 22.........I moved to 8-1 compression with tall gears and it's a whole different ball game now for doing some work without complaints....need to retard the timing a bit also.........
xsjohn
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nudude53
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Joined: Apr 24, 2009
Posts: 623
Location: Snow Camp, North Carolina
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| Posted: June 5, 2009, 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: 2 up riding ... |
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Either a 15/44 set up or smaller hiefer.
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jayel
650Rider Supporter
Joined: Apr 16, 2006
Posts: 3417
Location: SE Iowa 1974 TX650A
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| Posted: June 5, 2009, 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: 2 up riding ... |
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| Blackbird wrote: |
| I do a lot of 2 up riding. Does anyone have a perfect sprocket ratio (combo) that reduces the strain on the XS? |
depend on highway cruising or street riding, riders weight (I know she won't tell) so guess but don't tell her what you think unless you like getting slapped, I'd say 17 /33 or 32 cruise around 60/65 at close to 4000 rpm
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all it takes is time and money -- Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket? |
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Retiredgentleman
650Rider Supporter
Joined: Mar 03, 2007
Posts: 2258
Location: Calgary, Alberta 1978 XS650 SE
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| Posted: June 6, 2009, 12:04 am Post subject: Re: 2 up riding ... |
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By reducing strain on the engine, sounds like you want to be geared low. I had 17/36 on my bike when I first got it. That is definitely a low gear, and will easily carry 2 people. That would be a great gear for around town, but on the highway at 100 kph (62 mph) engine will be turning 4200 RPM. A little on the buzzy side.
I agree with jayel, 17/33 might be about right for 2 up riding. 100 kph will be 3900 RPM, but still works well around town. That's the gear I use now for 1 up riding.
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nudude53
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Joined: Apr 24, 2009
Posts: 623
Location: Snow Camp, North Carolina
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| Posted: June 6, 2009, 12:11 am Post subject: Re: 2 up riding ... |
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A 17/32 turns 3100 @ 55mph, great for back road cruising but still too low for the highway. Pulls two riders ok but it's a little tall when you come to a mild hill.
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Blackbird
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Joined: May 13, 2009
Posts: 20
Location: Detroit
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| Posted: June 6, 2009, 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: 2 up riding ... |
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All reply's are appreciated. I'm still confused. I was thinking of 18/32. I guess there is no perfect answer. 
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xsjohn
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Joined: Jul 30, 2006
Posts: 5857
Location: North Carolina USSA
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| Posted: June 6, 2009, 11:51 pm Post subject: Re: 2 up riding ... |
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I run all the place 18/29 with my grown son on the back (including the expressway) with the new 8-1 configuration and it has never pulled better or acted nicer.....generally never liked a passenger till now....and runs cooler......
you never said what you and your passengers total weight was..... ?
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Blackbird
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Joined: May 13, 2009
Posts: 20
Location: Detroit
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| Posted: June 7, 2009, 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: 2 up riding ... |
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| xsjohn wrote: |
I run all the place 18/29 with my grown son on the back (including the expressway) with the new 8-1 configuration and it has never pulled better or acted nicer.....generally never liked a passenger till now....and runs cooler......
you never said what you and your passengers total weight was..... ? |
About 320 lbs.
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xsjohn
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Joined: Jul 30, 2006
Posts: 5857
Location: North Carolina USSA
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| Posted: June 7, 2009, 10:47 pm Post subject: Re: 2 up riding ... |
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80 ........might know something about that one.........retard the timing 1/8" from the F mark at 1200.........then work on getting the epa out of the carbs.....I can help there with needles I make and enlarge the pilot jets.........then try it double........will still be geared too low but it will have a bunch more pull.......after that if Mine I would gear it 17-30 to start with and if its still too low go to an 18 on the front.....depending if you use the higher speed highways or slow back roads stock gearing may be ok.........the higher you gear it the more dificulty some people starting off .........but with above carbs and timing mods this is soon overcome.....................(.168 thousands is max retard)
If you are really looking for a simple answer there really isn't one....at least as far as I am concerned........for every kind of riding....express... back road combo thing.......if you know what I mean.......
xsjohn
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nudude53
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Joined: Apr 24, 2009
Posts: 623
Location: Snow Camp, North Carolina
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| Posted: June 7, 2009, 11:53 pm Post subject: Re: 2 up riding ... |
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This site sells rear sprockets as small as 29 teeth and has 18t fronts as well.
www.sprocketspecialist...Search=210
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xsjohn
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Joined: Jul 30, 2006
Posts: 5857
Location: North Carolina USSA
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| Posted: June 8, 2009, 12:01 am Post subject: Re: 2 up riding ... |
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aluminum......won't last long....better off for the price using a steel and have it carborized...15 thousands case.......will last forever......made mine from high carbon Martins' ...heat 1550 and quench..........Mikes has a steel 30 that could be carborized.......need a high carbon content steel sprocket to be able to heat and quench........
xsjohn
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nudude53
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Joined: Apr 24, 2009
Posts: 623
Location: Snow Camp, North Carolina
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| Posted: June 8, 2009, 12:36 am Post subject: Re: 2 up riding ... |
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I thought that aluminum could be hardened as well, I read that some where around here.
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xs1961
650Rider Supporter
Joined: Apr 23, 2007
Posts: 1808
Location: uk
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| Posted: June 8, 2009, 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: 2 up riding ... |
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Aluminium sprockets are lightweight for racing, theyre usually worn out after a meeting or two ...
y bikes are on 18/30 & they pull n cruise better than standard even two-up & loasded with luggage..
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rhilker
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Joined: Apr 08, 2009
Posts: 168
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: June 8, 2009, 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: 2 up riding ... |
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While you guys are on this topic, I'm thinking of going with 17 (stock) 30. The front sproket is less than year old with less than 3K on it .
Would it make a noticable difference vs 18-30? I'm sure it will be better than stock.
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xsjohn
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Joined: Jul 30, 2006
Posts: 5857
Location: North Carolina USSA
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| Posted: June 8, 2009, 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: 2 up riding ... |
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Retard the timing and use my needle kit..............maybe some day 8-1 then you will have a lugging cruiser from hell.............
need to retard the timing 1/8".......stock needles won't have the grunt.....and the right will get hot............
and have that 30 carborized...........and paint.........
xsjohn
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rhilker
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Joined: Apr 08, 2009
Posts: 168
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: June 8, 2009, 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: 2 up riding ... |
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Thanks XSJohn, advice taken and I've seen it before somewhere. I'm lost when it comes to the carbs and everything I've read including the manuals from XSGarage have no visuals. I learn by observing and doing. It would be really cool if you did a video on this (Carbs, Timing, Needles). I'm really good with video editing and graphics if you were to shoot a bunch of clips from even a digital camera I could splice it together, you may even sell some product if everyone fully understands it. (Sounds like a new section, Video Tutorials)
I don't have fireplace, could I harden the sprocket on a BBQ?
I got no idea on how to reduce the compression, and I'm not clear on the benefits. (Other than less wear and tear) I always thought that 9-1 was way to go. 10-1 and you can burn the pistons. Gotta how-to link?
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xsjohn
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Joined: Jul 30, 2006
Posts: 5857
Location: North Carolina USSA
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| Posted: June 8, 2009, 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: 2 up riding ... |
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""""""could I harden the sproket on a BBQ""""""""""
No it's probaboy low carbon steel.......won't take a quench........need to carborize it....(metal treating place)
stock is 8.5 to 8.7 to 1..........I was talking 8-1...........
needle kits come with easy instructions.........I would rather change needles that the rear sprocket any day.......
xsjohn
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rhilker
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Joined: Apr 08, 2009
Posts: 168
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: June 8, 2009, 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: 2 up riding ... |
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I'm planning to buy the sprocket fro MikesXS. Does that make a difference? Someone posted earier about putting it on fire and quenching it.
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xsjohn
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Joined: Jul 30, 2006
Posts: 5857
Location: North Carolina USSA
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| Posted: June 8, 2009, 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: 2 up riding ... |
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Fire (1550 degrees or medium red) only will work if the sprocket is high carbon steel....which I doubt......again carborize it..............or run it...
xsjohn
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nudude53
Full Member
Joined: Apr 24, 2009
Posts: 623
Location: Snow Camp, North Carolina
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| Posted: June 8, 2009, 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: 2 up riding ... |
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The 32t that I got from Mikes last year is aluminum.
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xsjohn
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Joined: Jul 30, 2006
Posts: 5857
Location: North Carolina USSA
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| Posted: June 8, 2009, 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: 2 up riding ... |
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Uh oh.............never thought of that....650central too....Martin #50 and a machine shop......pretty expensive that way............bet it would be 100 bucks + total..............the hole really needs to be in the middle too...
xsjohn
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nudude53
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Joined: Apr 24, 2009
Posts: 623
Location: Snow Camp, North Carolina
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| Posted: June 8, 2009, 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: 2 up riding ... |
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It's been holding up fairly well but the chain is wasted after about 3000 miles. I think I'll try a 17/30 on the project bike, it's a long way from hitting the ground though.
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xsjohn
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Joined: Jul 30, 2006
Posts: 5857
Location: North Carolina USSA
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| Posted: June 8, 2009, 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: 2 up riding ... |
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High Carbon Martins..........29 is on the bike.........bet there is 35 thou on the 30 with no real signs of wear...probably good for another 35 thou on that side before you could see any wear...then I could just turn it over and do it again......I won't live that long I afraid...........only have 23 thou on the 29..........
xsjohn
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