Woe is me... bad crank bearing

killer · Posted: June 4, 2009, 9:29 pm Post subject: Woe is me... bad crank bearing

I finally couldn't take the noise anymore. It only started in November, and got progressively worse. I tore my engine down to find a damaged center crank bearing on the clutch side. I'm so peeved. How could this happen? I wonder if my crank has an alignment issue. I don't have the correct instruments to measure misalignment on a crank.

The big end bearings are pretty worn too, they are well over 1mm wobble right and left. Altogether 32,000mi on the engine.

Should I try to re-build the crank I have?
Or take my chances and try to obtain a different one from an engine with less miles?

I already have WAY more money in my XS than its worth. ARGGGHH. gotta fix regardless.

dps-rider · Full Member Joined: Aug 25, 2007 Posts: 100

It would be a good time to rebuild and rephase it. Parts aren't cheap though.

tacoswild · Posted: June 4, 2009, 10:19 pm Post subject: Re: Woe is me... bad crank bearing

I think the wear limit on the big ends is 2mm isn't it? Manual says they wobble 1mm new.

killer · Posted: June 7, 2009, 6:13 am Post subject: Re: Woe is me... bad crank bearing

I considered the 277 crank years ago, but at this point, it's way over budget. After reading some folks thoughts on the matter, I think I would miss the low end performance as well.

I'm leaning toward a lower mileage used crank.

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

I don't know enough about the bottom end of a roller-crank engine to offer any advice. All I have are questions:

Does the case show any damage?
If you've got excessive wobble at the ends, does that indicate case wear or crank wear or bearing wear?
If it's case wear, is it possible to have the case line-bored, or do you have to replace it?
If it's crank wear, is it possible to have an XS crank reground or do you have to replace it?
Do they even make oversized bearings for the XS case?

islanddave · Posted: June 7, 2009, 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Woe is me... bad crank bearing

Sorry to hear about your luck.........I have had my share of bad luck too, and it has always worked out for me, and it will for you too. Check ebay see used cranks on there very often. Check you local papers and you just might find yourself the new owner of a $100 xs........it does happen you know.

Let us know if we can help

Dave

islanddave · Posted: June 7, 2009, 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Woe is me... bad crank bearing

[b]Sorry to hear about your luck.........I have had my share of bad luck too, and it has always worked out for me, and it will for you too. Check ebay see used cranks on there very often. Check you local papers and you just might find yourself the new owner of a $100 xs........it does happen you know. FYI to me it sound as though it might have starved for oil at some point, as the bottom ends are pretty bullet pretty bullet proof if taken care of...how do the cam lobes look?

Let us know if we can help

Dave

royfisk · Posted: June 7, 2009, 10:03 am Post subject: Re: Woe is me... bad crank bearing

32,000 miles if my memory serves me well thats about where Johns crank bearings went south. What do you use for oil? Rottella diesel oil is what I am running and am very happy with it. I have cranks with good bearings all ready to go in. They are $150.00 plus shipping. No extra for handleing just whatever the actual shipping costs are. If interested email me at. arfiskenterprises @ comcast.net
or phone 1-603-239-4134

killer · Posted: June 7, 2009, 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: Woe is me... bad crank bearing

Well, what I didn't divulge yet is that the crank bearings were replaced at 11 thousand miles, when I bought the bike ten years ago. All three rollers were shot at that point. Its lasted up to this point, but still it shouldn't have failed a bearing with only this many miles.

There's no indication of oil starvation. The cam is fine, and the rocker shafts are fine. It squirts nicely with the adjustment covers off, so I know I have oil pressure. The passageways are clear in the case. I've been running Pennzoil 20w-50. I considered the diesel grades, but couldn't decide on what weight to use.

There's got to be something fundamentally wrong. Either the crank is out of alignment which I checked last time, or the possibility I hadn't thought of that the case is actually at fault?!? How do I check that?

xsjohn · Posted: June 7, 2009, 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Woe is me... bad crank bearing

Cases are line bored.....unless one has been changed and not the other that's probably not it........rev's ....compresson.......timing.....gearing... all play on the crank....if you are tired of it like I was switch to 8-1 and gear it right.....other than that I have no good answers...........except keep swaping cranks.....my research on this matter is done and I know what I like.........

xsjohn

xsleo · Posted: June 7, 2009, 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Woe is me... bad crank bearing

Was the failed bearing one of the ones you changed before, if so it could have just been a bad bearing. It happens!

xsjohn · Posted: June 7, 2009, 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Woe is me... bad crank bearing

Bearings will slide in their races when over reved..........for all the guys that think that red line is what the tack says.....I beg to differ...my center crank bearing was hosed by the previous owner who thought that 7 thousand was neat......my second crank had a bad R/S bearing when it came to me......I could hear it whirl the first time I hit the starter....was just a matter of time then...........and retarded timing just a bit is sure easier on the crank at 2500.........and 8-1 makes the fricken thing purrrrrr....

xsjohn

yamaman · Posted: June 7, 2009, 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: Woe is me... bad crank bearing

A guy over at the garage claims his will pull 13,000rpm Shocked

xsleo · Posted: June 7, 2009, 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: Woe is me... bad crank bearing

Yea but how long?

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

There's no indication of oil starvation -- then what's wrong with the bearing? Did one of the balls flake off a chip? Is the outer or inner race cracked or pitted? Did something seize up and spin? What?

royfisk · Posted: June 7, 2009, 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: Woe is me... bad crank bearing

pulling 13,000 and keeping it together are 2 differant things. How much money does one put into one of these to make it even pull those revs. probably has the wrong tach on board a 2 to 1 ratio verses a 1 to1 ratio and is actually pulling 6500 rpm. Useually the bad things to do are, 1) dont lug the engine down to the point where you can almost count the firing in high gear. 2) dont be cheap and buy the cheapest oil you can find. 3) Big bore kits run hard will drive bearings out. THE BIGGEST KILLER OF BEARINGS IN ANY APPLICATION IS IMPROPER LUBRICATION. Cheap oils, lack of lubrication, wrong oils altogether. walmart oil doesnt cut it. those who want to argue that can. Let me know when you need a crankshaft you will sooner or later. Also FOLLOW YOU SUGGESTED OIL CHANGE SCHEDULE, AND PAY ATTENTION TO THE OIL SCREENS, AND WHAT IS IN THE DRAIN OIL, (LOOK IT OVER CLOSE) ARE THERE ANY CONTAMINATES IN IT? Those too will cause bearing failures. STAY AWAY FROM MECHANIC IN A BOTTLE. If you have a engine noise go in and fix it. Mechanic in a bottle puts additives in your oil system and coats the entire surface's of your engine, including bearings. Now stop and think if you just added 2-7 mil to your entire engine surfaces what happened to your bearings tollerances???? THEY BECAME TIGHTER THATS WHAT. How long will they last, Who knows. Those fix all additives can and will add to your problams. Also note most of them are designed for cars and most cars do not have rollerised engines...

xsjohn · Posted: June 7, 2009, 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: Woe is me... bad crank bearing

The rollers usually look like they went through a gravel pit (all pitted probably from sliding) and the R/S bearing usually gets a nick in the inside or outside race that gets worse and clanks heavily.......maybe from a bit of trash going through or sliding..........

Guess if the crank just spun with out any added jarring it may spin till infinity.....but adde jarring from advanced timing and compression and over reving surely must pla down it's longivity..........so I went to 8-1 to reduce tha calamity and after 6 months I love it......just plain runs better and smoother..............for the way I ride......

xsjohn

killer · Posted: June 7, 2009, 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: Woe is me... bad crank bearing

My center main looks just like XSJohn's second picture above. (Thanks for saving me the time to post that photo) Its not quite as far gone, but its the source of all the grit I found clinging to the magnets.

This engine has never seen excessive revs, so I can assure myself its not from abuse. Other folks have been using Pennzoil and Castrol oils, so I don't want to point the finger there. I've not tried to fix a problem with any "snake oils" in the engine... and I'm a regular oil changer whether it needs it or not.

If I lose this eBay auction, I may be calling you Roy.

xsjohn · Posted: June 7, 2009, 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: Woe is me... bad crank bearing

The more you work the crank the sooner it fails.....hence 8-1.......believe it or not......every 20-30 thou for a crank ain't bad would be the general consensus........some do better some do worse.......but after all the years I truly believe I have found a better answer........

xsjohn

killer · Posted: June 7, 2009, 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: Woe is me... bad crank bearing

I hear what you're saying, xsJohn. Less stress, longer life.

Riding my Guzzi is really extending the life of my XS engine. Rolling Eyes

I just need more bikes to extend the life of all the engines. See how that argument goes over with the wife.

xsjohn · Posted: June 7, 2009, 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: Woe is me... bad crank bearing

That should go over good.........like when I told the wife I bought myself some new tires so she wouldn't have to worry about me.........

xsjohn

yamalama · Full Member Joined: Nov 14, 2008 Posts: 26

Sometimes if you have a faulty petcock or weak shut off needles, gas can run into the case, thining the oil out, and wear out a bearing. I always use good petcocks that you can shut off. I was working on my Kawasaki W2 yesterday, and found a float that had gas in it. not much just enough to keep the gas running, if I didnt turn my petcocks off everytime I parked, I too could be replacing some bearings. Somtimes you can find another engine for the price you would pay for the time and parts to fix a damaged engine. Also anytime Iam going to replace a engine part I go with OEM. Good luck, Ray.

royfisk · Posted: June 8, 2009, 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Woe is me... bad crank bearing

I agree good pet cocks. non vacume, manual old fasion. Then rest assured they are off.

killer · Posted: June 8, 2009, 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: Woe is me... bad crank bearing

A possibility, however, I would have noticed missing fuel or too much smelly thin oil.

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