82 xs650 charging problem and...

jerseykat1 · Full Member Joined: May 03, 2009 Posts: 79

Hello all. I am a rookie 650 rider. Just purchased an 82 from craigslist, it runs, but charging system does not work. The guy I purchased it from thinks it needs a stator. But I also have another issue, that I am hoping is related. The left bank does not seem to be firing all the time, I did a compression test and there is compression, there is spark, but I am not sure if the spark is maintaining in the cylinder or if I have a carb problem.

Anyhow is there an online manual for this bike that can help point me in the right direction? Or maybe you guys can help point me in the right direction. Thank you very much

I think the power might be good, but I am not sure as I don't want to go far with it until issues are sorted, plus the only other bike I have riden is a 200cc kikker5150 hardknock which is quick but...

xsjohn · Posted: May 6, 2009, 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: 82 xs650 charging problem and...

biker.net for the PDF manual.........check the free things first...stator resistance between white wires at the plug........ (.7 Ohms)........and the rotor (one brush lifted) 5 ohms or more...........

You checked compression...(with a compression guage..?..)..what was the psi on each side (throttle held open)...............

xsjohn

jerseykat1 · Full Member Joined: May 03, 2009 Posts: 79

I only checked compression on the suspect cylinder, no I didn't have throttle open during the check,I will try it that way. I believe it was about 140psi will double check when I get back home tonite. It also backfires on the left side out the exaust and the carbs but more so out the exaust, I believe the carbs are mikuni, as that's what it says on the side. When I rurn the screw on the top (I am assuming it's the mixture screw) of the left carb counter clockwise a lot the backfiring stops a lot. Is that richening or leaning it out?
Thank you.

jerseykat1 · Full Member Joined: May 03, 2009 Posts: 79

Excuse my posts please, I am posting from my phone. For some reason it doesn't keep the paragraph seperation.

Retiredgentleman · Posted: May 6, 2009, 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: 82 xs650 charging problem and...

Focus on getting your charging system working first, then step two would be getting the carbs working.
xs650temp.proboards.co...hread=3461

You must have the electrical system working normally before chasing other problems. What is the battery voltage with engine off ,with the engine idling at 1200 RPM, with engine at 2500 RPM?

jerseykat1 · Full Member Joined: May 03, 2009 Posts: 79

Tach don't work properly (it sticks), I have the battery charging right now. I can perform more tests when I get home tonite and findout where everything is.
Thank you guys so much for pointing me in the right direction.

I will be able to stop worrying after I do another compression test with the throttle open to be sure I don't have compression issues.

NateDogg · Posted: May 6, 2009, 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: 82 xs650 charging problem and...

xsjohn wrote:

biker.net for the PDF manual.........check the free things first...stator resistance between white wires at the plug........ (.7 Ohms)........and the rotor (one brush lifted) 5 ohms or more...........

You checked compression...(with a compression guage..?..)..what was the psi on each side (throttle held open)...............

xsjohn

John, what do you mean 1 brush lifted? I'm going through the same charging woes and tested the rotor with the brushes installed and get about 1 ohm.

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

NateDogg, remove one brush is what john was saying...........you won't get a proper reading with both brush's installed

NateDogg · Posted: May 6, 2009, 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: 82 xs650 charging problem and...

Good to know thanks!!!...I guess I'll re-test

jerseykat1 · Full Member Joined: May 03, 2009 Posts: 79

biker.net doesnt have a manual for the 82 xs650. looks like i will have to order a manual and a ignition coil. being that i just ruined the stock coil thinking the plug wires were the screw on type and they are not.

but anyhow whats the best manual to get and where do i get it from?

nj1639 · Posted: May 7, 2009, 7:25 am Post subject: Re: 82 xs650 charging problem and...

Haynes or Clymer. I've got the Haynes and some things are a bit cryptic, may be the same with the Clymers.
Either manual (and the support from this site) will get you through.
Jersey, eh?

jerseykat1 · Full Member Joined: May 03, 2009 Posts: 79

Thank you. I have not done any tests as of yet, I just pieced (rigged) my coil back together this morning to see how it runs on a full charge, and it runs really good on a full charge. So I am pretty sure my drivability issues are because of my charging system. So is ebay the best place to get one of these manuals?

I have read a few posts about the charging system being a chronic problem on these bikes and I also noticed that most of the bikes 4 sale on CL needed stators. Needless to say I want to switch to the perm magnet set up, and just be done with it. Anyone know what special tools will be needed and or will it be possible to switch on an 82?

gordo · Posted: May 7, 2009, 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: 82 xs650 charging problem and...

Mike's xs, he's got both, Haynes & Clymer. My Clymer isn't bad, sometime's a little hard to decipher.Nope, no Clymer from mike.

Retiredgentleman · Posted: May 7, 2009, 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: 82 xs650 charging problem and...

jerseykat1;
I don't agree that the charging system is a chronic problem. Any electrical device that has been around for 26 to 37 years may just be worn out. Its quite amazing that they last that long. It may be necessary to replace the rotor or stator when they are of that age. The brushes are a wear item that needs replacing occasionally.

I find the alternator on my bike works fine. This design that uses an electromagnet for the field(rotor) is a good design. Its more efficient than the PM type.

Leave a space on the alternator cover, and the added air flow will keep the alternator cooler.

jerseykat1 · Full Member Joined: May 03, 2009 Posts: 79

My main thing is reliability. If me changing out a 30 year old rotor and stator for new exact replacement parts will give me good reliability and cost the same or less than switching to the perm magnet set up than that's what I will do.
So all the people having charging issues are people that still have the original stator, rotor, etc, and after replacing with new there is not likely to be any more chargeing system failures unless there is wiring issues?

NateDogg · Posted: May 7, 2009, 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: 82 xs650 charging problem and...

Jersey I'm in the same boat, I'm on the fence about going perm magnet or just replacing with original equipment. The issue I have is that anything involving electricity I am no good at all with. I'm trying to determine which of the three charging components is fucked and trying not to throw too much money at it.

jayel · Posted: May 7, 2009, 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: 82 xs650 charging problem and...

Retiredgentleman wrote:

Leave a space on the alternator cover, and the added air flow will keep the alternator cooler.

wouldn't that let the smoke out?

1. First charge your battery to at least 12.5-12.7V.

2. Find a really thin feeler gauge like 0.010" or 0.015" and hold it pointed down about a half inch away from your generator cover on the engine. Now turn the key on. If your regulator and rotor are working the feeler gauge should slap the case when the magnetic field is created in the rotor. If nothing happens or the magnetic effect seems really weak then go on to the next test.

3. On the solid state regulator models all you need to do is locate the green wire at the regulator plug and make a jump from it to ground. That bypasses the regulator and allows full battery current to flow through the brushes out of the rotor through the green wire to ground. That causes the rotor to make a stronger magnetic field which in turn causes more current to flow in the stator. If your battery terminal charge voltage jumps up to 14.5VDC when you rev the engine then the regulator or the ground connection for the regulator is your problem.

4. If nothing changes then it's time to check the voltage on the brown wire (It may be black on your bike) at the positive brush with the key on. It should be very close to battery voltage. The brown wire that feeds the brush gets its power from the brown wire at the key switch. Check the voltage at the three wire key switch connector while it's plugged in by probing from the backside of the connector with the key on. Again you should see the same voltage as the battery. If you do get full battery voltage there then repair the brown wire circuit between the switch and the positive brush. If not then the switch is either bad or the red wire from the battery is not passing the full current like it should. If that's the case then keep going back along the red wire, through the main fuse until you find the source of the voltage drop. No more than 0.3VDC drop is acceptable.

5. Once you have full voltage to the positive brush re-check the charging voltage to see if you're getting 14.5 VDC or better at the battery when revved to about 3,000 rpm. If you still don't have a charge then do the feeler gauge test again. If it slaps the case your rotor and regulator are working and you can go on to stator checks. If not then pull the brushes out of their holder and use an ohm meter to test the rotor. Measure the rotor first by touching the tester leads to the brass slip rings. Then take one lead and touch anywhere on the engine that's not painted. For the first test you should see between 5 and 5.5 ohms between the slip rings. On the second test between one slip ring and the engine you should see infinity on the meter. Any reading lower than 5 ohms on the first test or less than infinity on the second test means you have a bad rotor. Replace it. If it tests good then go on to the stator checks.

6. At the stator wire connector locate the three white wires. Use a voltmeter set on the AC scale to test the three possible connections between the white wires by probing from the backside of the connector. (The connector should be plugged together for this test) With the engine running at idle you should see about 10.5 to 11 AC volts (Not DC) on each of the three combinations of white to white that you make. If you get a very low reading on one or two legs then something is grounding your stator. If you have high readings on any of the legs (i.e. 16-18VDC) then your rectifier is bad.

7. If you got low readings on any of the stator voltage checks then unplug the connector and use your ohm meter to check the stator windings. Check the resistance between the three fabric covered wires (stator side) on the side of the connector. On each white to white connection you should read about 0.4 to 0.5 Ohms. If you get a very low reading on all of the three combinations find the single Yellow wire connector and disconnect it. Re-check your stator resistance. If the readings are now good then the yellow wire or safety relay are shorted. If there is one or more that still read low after disconnecting the yellow then check those legs by touching one lead to ground with the other on the white wire. You should see a very high Kilo ohm or infinite reading. If you get a low resistance check the stator lead pigtail to see if it is pinched by the cases or rubbed through on the frame. If that looks ok then your stator is shorted and needs to be replaced.

And that's about it except to say that dirty connections and worn brushes account for most of the charging system problems.

NateDogg · Posted: May 7, 2009, 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: 82 xs650 charging problem and...

Haven't done the feeler guage test but I did notice, with the cover off, the center becomes magnetic when the powers on, but nothing away from the crank/bolt

NateDogg · Posted: May 7, 2009, 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: 82 xs650 charging problem and...

And thanks to you guys for your patience on this subject, I know it gets rehashed all the time and it must get boring as hell but it's really helpful to guys like me.

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

Good post Jayal I'll mark that for the vault

jayel · Posted: May 7, 2009, 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: 82 xs650 charging problem and...

and the rest of my witty repartee?? Laughing

that's been around a while, not mine originally, but good stuff

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

now that you have fessed up Shocked

...........Have you actually used it Laughing

jayel · Posted: May 7, 2009, 10:57 pm Post subject: Re: 82 xs650 charging problem and...

yes, that's how I figured out my own charging system, original rotor was shot, that said almost any of these problems (carbs, charging system, brakes) can be found out if you search, the only problem I haven't seen solved is Why in the hell do you want to chop it? Laughing

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

I still have a hell of a long way to go before my practical knowledge is up there.................. i have done a lot of research and found a lot if information though, and like to share that as much as i can..........................I think sharno is finding out the benefits of chopping...............Having trouble finding out where the cheep XS's are...

What Happened to 650rider.com?

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