Special VS. Standard

oldbikenut · Posted: February 11, 2009, 11:34 pm Post subject: Special VS. Standard

Okay so I'm new or at least back to the XS family after a long vacation. My question is about the standard and special versions of the XS. I recently picked up a 78 XS650 special and have grand ideas of what I'd like to do with this bike. It's been interesting reading all the different opinions on how people feel about these different models. Now besides the obvious differences of the seat, handlebars and rims what are the differences one who is new to this may not be aware of. Also what years were the specials made etc.

Also I'd like to hear which model you prefer and why? I just think it would be interesting.

jpowell · Posted: February 11, 2009, 11:44 pm Post subject: Re: Special VS. Standard

I have a 78 special. For the best of my knowledge, the only difference is what you said, handlebar, seat and rims, and also the tank...

As far as I know everything else is the same as the standard...

But that's just my un-educated guess.

oldskoolcool · Full Member Joined: Sep 08, 2007 Posts: 372

i just find the japanese to be horribly confused with cruiser style bikes in the 80's...stepped seats, and buckhorn bars are not cool now and never were. Another mistake was Kwaka's CSR bikes and the Suzuki GS "L" models....talk about bikes that do nothing to stir the senses but do everything to stir the stomach bile up. Add softass suspension on some of these with no ground clearance and you have a real winner.

i copied it from another post that i interrupted earlier.

The Standards look like nice early Brit bikes....the specials...are um. blech.

jayel · Posted: February 12, 2009, 12:01 am Post subject: Re: Special VS. Standard

specials top shock mount moved forward on frame = more lean to the shock and 16" rear wheel instead of 18"

specials = pesudo-choppers = blech

think they started making the specials in 78 continued to 84

pumps · Posted: February 12, 2009, 12:12 am Post subject: Re: Special VS. Standard

I "THINK" the frames on the specials are slightly different.

jpowell · Posted: February 12, 2009, 12:15 am Post subject: Re: Special VS. Standard

probably, now you mention it. otherwise why else would a standard seat not work?

oldbikenut · Posted: February 12, 2009, 1:48 am Post subject: Re: Special VS. Standard

jpowell wrote:

probably, now you mention it. otherwise why else would a standard seat not work?

I've read several different opinions on the seat and it seems to be the 78 and 79 have a slightly different seat. I believe from what I've read you can use mid 75 to 79 standard with the hinges on the side on the 78 and 79 specials with slight modificatons, but I definately don't know this for sure as I have not tried this myself! It would nice for someone who has tried this to let us know if this is true and even possible.

I believe according to Mikesxs that the tanks are slightly different and use different caps. But are the tanks interchangable between the specials and standards?

Oldskoolcool, I think the late 70's early 80's was an experimental time for a lot of things. Who remembers a 78 mustang, gremlins, pacers, pintos. I definately agree with the look you're talking about and personally find the sportbike feel much more fun and enjoyable ride for me, but I must say I do have a soft spot for the cruiser type bikes and there looks.

Barbara · Posted: February 12, 2009, 1:54 am Post subject: Re: Special VS. Standard

Hi Guys,

I much prefer the standard, because, as mentioned, the look a bit like the Brits of the late 1960's and early '70's. (If only they had isolastic suspension!!) And my '77 is basically perfect, having the larger tank, and regular points ignition..... Laughing

The '79 Special I picked up, on the other hand, is going to be cafe'd out in the manner of the cafe bikes of the Mother Country rockers of the late 1960's. Clip-ons, rear-sets, cafe seat, big quasi-Lyta tank if I can find one cheap, two-into-one exhaust; you know--totally anti-social and designed to embarrass my kids when I ride it! I guess a real purist would dump the electric leg, but I've grown used to it, and I like not having to kick start the beast, although, being a twin, it's an easy starter. What would really be cool would be an old dustbin fairing, but it would be easier to find a unicorn....

I like cafe bikes, and Specials are pretty good material with which to work!
Standards? They're born as cool as Steve McQueen!!! Wink

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

The special was first introduced in 1978, the 78-79 specials have a hinged stepped seat........Standard seats can be adapted to fit these frames..........The tanks from the 74TXA through to the 79F standard will go strait onto the specials........Photo: Here is a Special frame with TXA tank and side covers, (the mounting brackets would have to be welded on the frame for the side covers), standard wheels and Special 35mm front forks.

yamaman · Posted: February 12, 2009, 4:53 am Post subject: Re: Special VS. Standard

Have the shock mounts been relocated?

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

I don't know, this is a bike i was looking to buy, the owner wanted $2400 supposedly had a reconditioned XS1 motor and i didn't know enough about the different models at the time so let it pass.........the motor wasn't an XS1 so wounder'd what else he was lying about

popojijo4 · Posted: June 23, 2009, 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Special VS. Standard

650skull wrote:

The special was first introduced in 1978, the 78-79 specials have a hinged stepped seat........Standard seats can be adapted to fit these frames..........The tanks from the 74TXA through to the 79F standard will go strait onto the specials........Photo: Here is a Special frame with TXA tank and side covers, (the mounting brackets would have to be welded on the frame for the side covers), standard wheels and Special 35mm front forks.

What on the seat or frame has to be changed to make a standard seat fit a special? I've been tearing my hair out trying to find a decent cafe style or even just a non-stepped seat for my 79 Special II (XS650-2F).

weekendrider · Posted: June 23, 2009, 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Special VS. Standard

The hinges are the same for the 78-79 Specials and the standards. And I have put an early special seat on a standard(just to see). The problem is with the latch leg. The one on the standard is too short for the special. The one on the special is too long for the standard frame. The seat won't fasten tightly. It will latch but not tightly. Every time you set on it, it drops another 1/2" or so.
I did look at swapping the latches but the bolt pattern is different, requiring drilling and tapping. Not worth it to me.

If you want a flatter seat instead of the hump. Spend fifty and get it contoured and recovered

xjwmx · Posted: June 23, 2009, 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: Special VS. Standard

I like the look of the special more. The standard has cleaner lines, but to me is more boring. Yes, the standard resembles old Brit bikes, but that eventually became the Japanese look, don't you think?

Like oldbikenut said, the styling of the specials was a reflection of the era they were designed in. Once any style becomes outdated it looks horrible for a decade or two, and then it becomes "classic" to at least some degree. A Pacer or Gremlin or Vega or Mustang II would look quite cool today.

And even if you never like the look of a special, you have to admit that it was an expression and not a copy Smile

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

An extract from the "Buyers Guide" off Web Page Name XS650 Club Australia.

Incidentally, the SE was the world's second "factory custom", being released just months after Kawasaki's KZ-900LTD. Third was Harley-Davidson's Low Rider. Yamaha may have been beaten to the punch, but how many LTDs have you seen lately? All three factories applied the same logic - simply do to an existing model what many owners had been doing for years. Though they were obviously being developed at the same time, it's difficult to know whether each factory knew of the others' plans or which one actually thought of the idea first. Whoever it was, they certainly read the market correctly. By the end of 1979, cruiserbike sales were booming and Yamaha saw no reason to continue making the Standards. The XS-650SG of 1980 had an aluminium grab-rail, plastic side-covers and a removable, and even more stepped, seat. The XS-650SH of '81 was the same as the SG except for a return to a drum brake at the rear, but still with a cast 16" wheel.
This was the last model sold in Australia but they continued for another two years in North America, as the SI and SJ Heritage Specials. Yamaha used that term long before it was ever thought of by H-D. These bikes returned to wire wheels, but with 72 spokes instead of the usual 36, steel rims, but still with the 16"er at the rear. They had black chrome, and electronic ignition fired by the crank whereas all previous models had points, driven by the cam.
By the time it was all over, the XS/TX/XS-650 was Yamaha's longest running and biggest selling model - a title it still holds today. So good and so popular was it, that Yamaha readily admits the 650 saved it from total collapse during and after the TX-750/500 fiasco. Unfortunately however, it's generally acknowledged that the only way Yamaha could ensure the success of the XJ range was to discontinue the XS-650. Put simply, it was so good that it had to be killed off for the company and it's products to further evolve. It really was the goose that laid the golden egg, and everyone knows what happens to those.

This time however, they misread the market. Most owners would not trade their 650s in on an XJ and even when it came time for a change, many deserted the brand and looked elsewhere. Yamaha spent the rest of the '80s and the early '90s out in the woods. Though they later went on to produce some cutting-edge bikes such as the R-1, we can look back and see how Harley-Davidson stayed with a winning formula, once they'd discovered it. As well, Triumph has resurrected the Bonneville, at least three of the Japanese factories have since produced a "retro" of some kind and all are still making cruisers. It's not hard to imagine that within the company, the axing of the XS, whilst thought to be necessary at the time for the sake of progress, is now regarded as a monumental blunder.

nj1639 · Posted: June 24, 2009, 5:23 am Post subject: Re: Special VS. Standard

Shades of the old mopar slant six.

xs1961 · Posted: June 24, 2009, 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: Special VS. Standard

Standard 'Roadster' as it was called over here looks best..The specials/customs never caught on here in the UKthey were seen as bikes were for psuedo chopper boys as far as us lot were concerned ..
Anyhow , all bikes should have wire-spoked wheels not those modern fangled cast jobbies.. Twisted Evil

popojijo4 · Posted: June 24, 2009, 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Special VS. Standard

Amen. That's how I WISH my 79 Special looked like. Looking to swap out the buckhorn handlebars, the cast wheels for spokes, and the horrid king n queen seat for a flat seat.

jayel · Posted: June 24, 2009, 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Special VS. Standard

Specials= faux chopper = Disco bike, git out yer polyster leisure suit and platform soles and ride that sucker

nj1639 · Posted: June 24, 2009, 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Special VS. Standard

Well, I like my '83 but after some changes. That Brit standard is a nice looker.

oldbikenut · Posted: June 24, 2009, 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: Special VS. Standard

popojijo4 wrote:

Amen. That's how I WISH my 79 Special looked like. Looking to swap out the buckhorn handlebars, the cast wheels for spokes, and the horrid king n queen seat for a flat seat.

Your bike looks like how I got my bike! Now as for the mags, I don't mind them to much and I like the rear disc, also the last time I checked some of the new Triumphs are sporting mags!

In case you have'nt seen my bike(I love to show it off), here is the before and after, for now!

xjwmx · Posted: June 24, 2009, 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: Special VS. Standard

oldbikenut wrote:

last time I checked some of the new Triumphs are sporting mags!

That's the disease in a nutshell. The inferiority complex. If a respectable Triumph has mags, then they're ok on an xs, I'll betcha.

In fact I added yet another step to my seat. Sort of. I added a chrome rack which visually is another step behind and above the step already there. Bolted on a '79 fender and tail light to take care of the problem that caused. The hole left in the back of the seat looks like cool spring suspension or something in there if you even notice it. Looks great. Less ugh, British.
Smile

The stepped seat is hell on long rides though, because you can't really change position enough to rest your body. And have you ever tried to come to a stop with your legs asleep Very Happy

LOL!! I did.

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

Oldbikernut, You have made that bike look great, the blue works....
Pissing those buck horns makes the lines work on the 78/79 specials, and the seat hasn't made the back end look bulky, the tail light is still separate...............As for the standards they lost the way on looks when the one piece guard was introduced, (have thought about building up some lugs on my 35mm forks just so i can mount stays on the front). Then the 78/79 standard had the seats steeped and look out of balance to the eye.

I am condensing my bikes to three, TXA, 78SE and my almost runner 80SG, with a 78SE tail light and a 78E tank, and when i find a lens, I will mount an XS1 1B head light and bucket...........

The Niagara falls seat on the later specials, 81 on i think, and then the side burns plastic covers on the heritage Specials, (i have one Laughing

), takes plastic to the limit and make these look more like the Saturday night fever days.......... Thank for the memories jayal.

jayel · Posted: June 24, 2009, 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: Special VS. Standard

remember disco duck ...... doesn't matter, I was wearing leather, stove pipe blue jeans and engineer boots back then, now it's does this seat make my butt look big .... don't anwser that question

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