Top End Rebuild

xsjohn · Posted: October 24, 2008, 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild

Paula Jones knew all that info.....So did Monica............xsjohn

5twins · Full Member Joined: Aug 05, 2006 Posts: 1616

Most of us use about 30 ft/lbs on the 8 large acorn nuts on top of the head. Yamaha's spec of about 25 was on the low side and coupled with those darn rubber/metal washers, was probably the cause of most of the leaky head gaskets you see on these bikes.

yamaman · Posted: October 24, 2008, 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild

xsjohn wrote:

Paula Jones knew all that info.....So did Monica............xsjohn

& Lorena knew what to do with the xsive protrusion

xsjohn · Posted: October 24, 2008, 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild

Her lawyer ask for the case to be dismissed........he stated that the evidence wouldn't stand up in court.....Her marrage counselor would not comment.....he had only recommended a seperation......

xsjohn

yamaman · Posted: October 24, 2008, 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild

I knew it wouldn't cut it!

xsjohn · Posted: October 24, 2008, 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild

Paula got a nose job....to remove the evidence that would have proven the impossiblity of servicing Bill.......

xsjohn

yamaman · Posted: October 24, 2008, 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild

Newsflash! Speaking of Lorena Bobbit, just heard she died in a motorcycle accident-you guessed it-some dick cut her off!

xsjohn · Posted: October 24, 2008, 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild

Riding the bobber again ......??

xsjohn

yamaman · Posted: October 24, 2008, 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild

No, the Chopper!

xsjohn · Posted: October 24, 2008, 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild

John Wayne Bobbitt last seen under the alias of Les Johnson...........xsjohn

weekendrider · Posted: October 24, 2008, 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild

yamaman wrote:

weekendrider wrote:

What is the torque on the long studs at the case?
I've got some of the copper washers from 650 central and they aren't as thick.

A better question might be what is the overall protruding length of the studs??????????????? Twisted Evil

If that was what I wanted to know yes Rolling Eyes

. But if someone found one loose they might want to know how much to tighten it without stripping/pulling the threads in the case.

yamaman · Posted: October 24, 2008, 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild

Sorry RG - I'll stop now Laughing

yamaman · Posted: October 24, 2008, 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild

All I was getting at WE was if the studs had bound up for some reason, like grit in the holes as was suggested, you might get a false torque reading. This would indicate all was well, when in fact it's not! Leaving the dome nuts to torque up on the stud and not on the head surface!
Rolling Eyes

indeed

weekendrider · Posted: October 24, 2008, 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild

yamaman wrote:

Leaving the dome nuts to torque up on the stud and not on the head surface!
Rolling Eyes

indeed

So if the dome nuts are bottoming out on the studs and you torque at 30 ft.lbs. (mine are at 34-35, 30 didn't stop the leak) And it doesn't strip the threads in the case that torque would be higher?

yamaman · Posted: October 24, 2008, 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild

Personaly - if I thought it was an issue - I'd torque it up with conventional nuts first and take the domes out of the equation. Re fit them when everythings cool. Studs are usualy fairly solid in place and can be very hard to remove.
Wondering how to tension the studs correctly, if done from the top of the stud, you would get a big variation compared to from the bottom?

xs1961 · Posted: October 24, 2008, 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild

Exactly Yamaman ! Wink

weekendrider · Posted: October 24, 2008, 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild

Yamaman that is what I was thinking. Double nut then torque with the top nut. Two wrenchs to break them loose for removal. I've been told no matter how long the extension, torque is the same at the socket end as the top end. I'd think for the torque values, the same would hold true for the steel double studs. Especially since your seat is aluminum and the stress point you would be worried about.
XS1961 when you clean the blast beads out. Did you just snug them in?Snug and thread lock? Torque to certain point or what?

yamaman · Posted: October 24, 2008, 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild

WE- have you removed or loosened your studs? If you havn't touched them, my guess is they would be ok.

If you used the double nut theory to undo them, you would more than likely snap some of them. Proper way is with a stud remover, then tension using same.

I dont agree (this doesn't make me right and I'm happy to be told so) about no torque loss with a longer extension. Many times while using my air rattle gun, I've not been able to loosen a bolt, yet when I removed the ex bar the bolt came straight out.

weekendrider · Posted: October 24, 2008, 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild

Wouldn't the case of losing impact be different than applying torque. In the case of impact it is being absorbed at three points. In the case of steady applied torque it is just at the point of resistance, the nut or bolt.
Anywho I was just wondering. I'm not taking anything apart or putting anything back. Retired brought it up by suggesting maybe the studs hadn't be seated far enough making them longer(in which case they would just tighten in the case until you reached torque) and jake suggested the studs maybe stretched and I supposed need replaced. In both cases in might be handy to know how much twist to apply when redoing them. I just asked the question. I can't find any reference for that situation in my manual. Maybe I'm overlooking it?

Jake68 · 650Rider Supporter Joined: Mar 23, 2007 Posts: 841

ALL my studs showed different lengths at the head!..Some wildly different, like 4mm or so...

Getting some double width open nuts will do the trick..

But next time (soon for 750 hopefully) I will be using the double nut method to see if there is any torque to go down into the casings from the studs..If that makes sense..

Retiredgentleman · Posted: October 24, 2008, 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild

To-day, took a bunch of measurements to see how the wear is in the engine.
Valve stems,springs and guide all in spec. Cylinder bore and taper in spec. Piston diameter and ring groove in spec. Camshaft lift and width in spec.
Top and middle rings end gap still in spec, but on the large size at .022". Oil control rings end gap out of spec at .049". So, I'll buy new rings as well as valve seals,cam chain, front camchain guide, and of course, oil seal kit, gaskets, o-ring set and piston pin circ clips.
I still need to lap the valves, and test them for a good seal.

xsjohn · Posted: October 25, 2008, 4:11 am Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild

Some more bucks for rings will be cool.......for me I would smooth the sharp edges "very very" slightly from the new rings "lightly" with some 220 sand paper.......but that's just the way I do things...only the flat surface of the rings is good for the walls and the sharp edges can dig and shorten life..........then lightly hone to save good clearance on the cylinders.............old trick from years ago.....never disapointed me......

xsjohn

xs1961 · Posted: October 25, 2008, 4:23 am Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild

[quote]XS1961 when you clean the blast beads out. Did you just snug them in?Snug and thread lock? Torque to certain point or what?[quote]
Ive never used locktite so far on them,just wound them down til they stop..
As you can see I havent worked-out how to use the 'quote' facility... Embarassed

xsjohn · Posted: October 25, 2008, 4:30 am Post subject: Re: Top End Rebuild

Better get the beads out of everywhere...if a few got in the threads ..a few will be in the oil too......rather have the old cases that the pretty ones then.........xsjohn

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