Ignition question

verno · Full Member Joined: Aug 02, 2008 Posts: 15

Got my first bike, an 83 xs. It seems to kick over after a bit of effort (it's been sitting for a year or so in someones garage). No dice with the electric start, doesnt seem to work. I have bad knees and ankles, so while I can get it going with the kicker, I would way rather have the electric start working. I have been reading all the threads I can on here about the weak ignition coil. Would a new ACCEL coil from 650 central likely fix my problem? I'm not all that mechanically inclined, but it looks pretty straight forward to put one in.

Retiredgentleman · Posted: August 22, 2008, 10:14 pm Post subject: Re: Ignition question

verno; Don't assume your ignition coil is bad without some testing of more basic things. Its important that the battery voltage is normal and that the full voltage reaches the coil and TCI unit.
Is the battery new or is it quite old? What voltage does the battery have before starting? What voltage does the battery have with the engine idling at 1200 RPM? The starter motor may be pulling down the voltage so low that the TCI and coil can't do their job, but the real problem may be a weak battery.
The path from the battery to the coil and TCI needs to be low resistance. Make sure the main fuse and ignition fuse are making good contact with no corrosion around them. Its also a good idea to remove the ignition switch and the kill switch and clean up the contacts so they are bright and shiney.

verno · Full Member Joined: Aug 02, 2008 Posts: 15

The battery is brand new last month from the shop that saftied the bike. The seller told me that the electric boot works, but only when the bike is warmed up.

Retiredgentleman · Posted: August 22, 2008, 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: Ignition question

So, am I correct that the starter motor turns the engine with no problem but just won't fire?

verno · Full Member Joined: Aug 02, 2008 Posts: 15

Sorry you are dealing with a complete noob here. Thanks for being patient. When I hit the starter, it may turn once or twice, then I just get a clicking sound. But I don't get the deep sound (does that make sense?) that I do when I kick it over and its about to fire

Retiredgentleman · Posted: August 22, 2008, 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: Ignition question

Check the large cable where it connects to the starter motor so that there is no corrosion present. Its also possible that the brushes in the starter motor are worn out.
There is a common problem with the starter motor, read this link:
650wiki.org/index.php/...roblem_fix
You can also have a look at mikesxs.com under Electric/Starter Motor, he has a repair kit.

pumps · Posted: August 22, 2008, 11:44 pm Post subject: Re: Ignition question

Mine works fine still RTG but thats a good bookmarked link to have. Thanks!

weekendrider · Posted: August 23, 2008, 12:24 am Post subject: Re: Ignition question

Retiredgentleman if the start button was corroded would it be a case of it (voltage) checking OK but not carrying enough current? Or maybe not grounding well enough to sustain current?

verno if the charging system isn't up to snuff your new battery may need a charge.

Retiredgentleman · Posted: August 23, 2008, 1:56 am Post subject: Re: Ignition question

Over time contacts oxidize and resistance can increase.If I start having problems with switches, first thing I do is remove and clean the switch. The start PB gets its ground from the handlebar, so it must make good contact. On my bike (78 SE) the ground is fed, from the wiring harness inside the headlight, to the turn signals switch on the left side. Check to see if you have a black wire supplying that ground. There are "accidental" grounds feeding the handlebars through the clutch and throttle cable sheaths, but they shouldn't be counted on.

Audy · Posted: August 28, 2008, 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Ignition question

i have a question ive seen it but i dont know how to do it i want to put an excel supper coil in place of the two coils that were there how do i go about doing that ?

Retiredgentleman · Posted: August 28, 2008, 9:32 pm Post subject: Re: Ignition question

Audy; Read this former posting. If using points, keep the primary resistance between 4 ohms and 5 ohms.
www.650rider.com/index...super+coil

verno · Full Member Joined: Aug 02, 2008 Posts: 15

OK since the tranny dropped out of my van today and the money for insurance on the bike is now going to pay for that, I have decided to try this work on my own. I looks pretty straight forward. Take of the right side case etc. What has me concerned is the part that says "remove the clutch basket" Is this something a newb can handle? I'm just worried that if I get it off there is some kind of trick to putting it back on the right way.

nj1639 · Posted: September 14, 2008, 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Ignition question

Not sure why you would be removing the engine side case for an electrical problem. I'm confused.

I see now, the 4th gear link from the previous posts.. Make sure your electrical contacts are good before you start on that. I'd do it as the last resort, be a shame to tear into that and still have an electrical contact problem.
If you go there you should be fine, need an impact screw driver to loosen the clutch springs most likely.

jpowell · Posted: September 14, 2008, 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Ignition question

If the engine is turning over, you don't need to take your clutch basket out. On these bikes it's common for gear "#4" to wear out, because only about 1/3 of the teeth engage. If your starter motor is turning the engine over, I wouldn't blame that. On to the Switch. The switch is a low current device. Meaning it can only handle a very small amount of power. It in turn energizes the starter relay. The starter relay takes that 12v input, pulls in a contactor that sends high current 12V right off the battery to the starter. A load test on your battery would be a good thing. If you don't have one a load test you can borrow one for autozone. If you have volt meter check it under load. put the meter on the battery and note the voltage. Then push the starter. Note the voltage while the starter motor is running, also note how fast it drops. If it drops below say 10 or 11 volts I'd say you either have a dead battery and it needs charged, or its bad.

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

Go back and look at the first post -- This guy seems to think that the ignition coil has something to do with the fact that his electric starter doesn't crank.

Retired, everyone, go back to ground zero and start again.

jpowell · Posted: September 14, 2008, 10:50 am Post subject: Re: Ignition question

As anyone will tell you, these bikes have a weak ignition system. If the voltage is dropping, there may not be enough for a good spark. If the battery is weak, that would explain why it starts with the kick starter, but when the electric starter is used it pulls the voltage down. Once the bike is warmed up it will start with a weaker spark.

weekendrider · Posted: September 14, 2008, 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Ignition question

nj1639 wrote:

Make sure your electrical contacts are good before you start on that. I'd do it as the last resort, be a shame to tear into that and still have an electrical contact problem.

Ah yup/ditto/sound advise/concur/etc.etc.

These seem to have idiosyncrasys that make each one different.
The 79 first kick or electric does the trick. One 83 you'll kick till your blue in the face but hit the button fires right up. Another 83 your better off kicking, starts 1st or 2nd kick, but using the elctric start may run the battery down to the point you have to kick or it may start 1st,2nd,3rd, 4th push of the button.After that you'd better give it a kick or get ready to find a hill to push it down. One thing is for sure you ride and fix it long enough they become extremely reliable transport. And dad gum fun to boot.

Retiredgentleman · Posted: September 14, 2008, 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Ignition question

This thread has wandered around a bit, so maybe we can do a simple check. Bike in Neutral. Use a battery booster cable to connect battery directly to the starter motor terminal on the bottom of the bike. If the engine cranks then the problem is in the electrical side of things (cables/starter relay etc.). If the engine does not crank then the starter motor itself ( brushes or mechanical gear engagement) may be faulty.

verno · Full Member Joined: Aug 02, 2008 Posts: 15

Thanks for the advice guys. Looks like I was getting a bit ahead of myself. I will try the booster cable to the starter this weekend and see what happens

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