Helmet laws, what do you think ?

650rider · WebMaster Joined: Feb 09, 2005 Posts: 431

I really don’t like that some insurance underwriter and the like have pushed the laws to make me wear a helmet especially on hot summer day. I live in the mountains and I really enjoy a ride in the Smokies with out a helmet. A few weeks ago I almost got a ticket in the national park ridding without a helmet but the officer that stopped me wound up talking more about my bike than the helmet issue. He check me for wants and warrants and with no issue there he let me go with just a verbal lashing about going over a cliff on the bike, like a helmet would help on a 200 foot drop off. It may, it may not, but should that be up to someone other than me? In my home state of FL the helmet laws where overturned a few years ago I wish NC would do the same. Last thing I belong to AAA Club and it has helped me a few times when I needed a tow but they seem to be the number one lobbing agency that pushes the helmet laws. That’s pisses me off but what to do? I want the coverage that they provide but not the other about helmet laws.

What do you think about this helmet law issue

Wulf

Here's my take on the subject. As for me personally, my dad drilled into me about proper gear and would kill me for riding without. Matter of fact, he busted my ass good at 13 for riding a honda 50 in circles on a carport without a helmet. Did a lot of MX and trail riding as a teen, so spills weren't uncommon. Smacked the side of my head good against a huge rock when I dumped it on a trail once (riding alone). Thank God for the helmet. I've hit the pavement 3 times over the years and each time I definately hit my helmeted head. So for me, I'm a firm believer in "personal responsibilty" to wear one as well as my passengers. As for Big Brother requiring me to wear a lid - f*** THAT!!! Far more people suffer head injury/death in cages than on bikes, so logically ALL people in vehicles should be required to wear a helmet. Fair's fair, right? It's really nothing more than "feel good legislation" for the politicians and a source of ticket revenue. Remember when they changed the speed limit in the 70's to 55? All the propaganda put out tried to convince people that anything over 55 would be sure death. Hmmmm, now many states are back to 65 or 70. WTF? Now that I think about it, far more people are shot to death than die from head injuries on a bike each year, so why aren't we all required to wear body armor? We can take this to the extreme, but the bottom line is it should be up to the rider on weather he /she wants to be lidless. (how 'bout topless?) Just my rant, but ride safe. The bastards are out to get you.
Wulf

Jack · Full Member Joined: Mar 15, 2005 Posts: 411

Dangggggggggggg Russo you picked a topic of which there'll never be a solution to satisfy both parties and I don't believe it's related to any of the states bringing in extra revenue to solve their buget problems Mr. Green

To me it, really boils down a safety issue when being compaired to automobile,where you are in a sense,safer in than a motorcycle. How many motorcycles do you know of that come equip with frontal and side airbags, shoulder harness seltbelts Question

Not a damn one and when you add all these saftey devices, they do prevent you from being thrown like a projectile upon impact Rolling Eyes

And if you still find yourself scratching your head,take the helmet off and slam your head against a large brick wall and express what ya feel Mr. Green

"OUCH" that hurts.

And your right,you should have power to choose wether or not to wear a helmet but for me, I've seen to many motorcyclist end up in bad situations that if they'd would of considered safety first rather than setting an image,they'd might be with me today riding till the sun sets and I wear protection from the toes and up.

Remember any time you plant your butt on that saddle ,it's a dangerous move and it could cost you your life........So think safety to "RIDE THE NEXT DAY".........Jack

Hamamatsu · Full Member Joined: Feb 19, 2005 Posts: 18

I live in a state where there are no helmet laws, but I almost never venture out without a helmet and leathers. The few times I have ridden without a helmet, I felt naked and unprotected. I firmly believe that noboby has the right to tell me that I have to wear a helmet, but I do believe in helmets and to ride without a helmet is insane and dangerous. Also my riding style doesn't lend itself to not wearing a helmet, I like to spend all day on a bike, sometimes 14 hours at a time, and the helmet serves to protect my face and ears from sun, wind blast, bugs. and crap kicked up by other vehicles on the road. Last and final, I can't stand the thought of me sliding face first down the road with my nose digging a rut in the tarmac. I also wear seat belts when I'm in my pick up truck.

kibokojoe

Well all I can say is I would not be here if it were not for a helmet. I flew off my dirt bike and hit a tree square. It split my bell helmet but not my head. I feel for certain the fall would have split my head.

KibokoJoe

Wulf

Amen to " bugs. and crap kicked up by other vehicles on the road." 2 quick tales. First. Taught wife #1 to ride and once I let her drive with me on the back on a roadtrip from Charleston S.C. to Augusta. Zippin down rural hwy 78 when all of a sudden she starts swervin' and 'bout loses it. Finally get stopped and she's leaning over holding her chest. Got hit by a june bug in the nipple at 60+ mph. Woulda been a lot worse in the eye! Second. I'm drivin' my cage to work smokin' a ciggarette, absentmindedly flicked it out the window and suddenly noticed a guy in the next lane behind me on a bike beating on his face. Had his face shield up and in went the butt. Oops! Sorry bout that. Boy was he pissed and gave me hell a few seconds later. Can't say I blamed him. Lot more carefull about that now. Ride safe.
Wulf

Hamamatsu · Full Member Joined: Feb 19, 2005 Posts: 18

This happened to me, while riding in a pack, the point rider kicked a paper bag lying in the middle of the road with his steel toe work boots. In that bag were some long neck beer bottles, the end result was that he showered the rest of us with bits of broken beer bottles at 60 mph. Had I not had a full face helmet, leather gloves and jacket, it would have been a disaster for me. Did you ever see what the bottom of a beer bottle does to the paint on a gas tank? We kicked his ass, and he doesn't ride point anymore.

thechknhwk

I have landed on my head off dirtbikes and the quad. Only laid the road bike down once and didn't bumb the nogin, but I won't ride w/out one.. It is surely your choice to be a vegtable from a routine spill, and that's what we're really talking about here. A helmet is not going to save you from a high speed crash or collision, but take a header under say, 40mph, and it could save your life and livelihood. The con of the freedom of choice is that you not wearing your lid is driving up my cycle insurance.. respirators cost money you know. I support your right to choose and we'll all foot the bill for it Cool

mo650chopper

Always woar one dirt biking and on the street here in Mo as it has always been the law, although I wear a non DOT beanie. When on the road if there is no helment law I usually do not wear one. But I do wear my seatbelt religiously in my car / truck, go figure.

Wulf

Just a sidenote. "The con of the freedom of choice is that you not wearing your lid is driving up my cycle insurance.. respirators cost money you know. I support your right to choose and we'll all foot the bill for it " It would be interesting to find out just what the difference in insurance cost for the same rider/ driving record / bike would be between states with and without mandatory helmet laws. Do states without helmet laws have higher bike insurance premiums? Respirators would be under health insurance rather than bike insurance would it not? And skyrocketing insurance is a result of the litigation happy society we live in. Hell, my health insurance at work just jumped up another 70 bucks a month. Are there any insurance agents on the board that could shed some input on this? This issue is really more about personal freedom and government intrusion. Insurance premiums can be debated to death but are really a very minor point in the issue. SHOULD you wear a helmet? Common sense, statistics and reality say yes. SHOULD the government force you to? No! Take ANY activity outside of sittin' safe in front of a computer and you have risks. Skydiving, rock / mountain climbing, bungee jumping, scuba diving, mountain biking, surfing, rodeo, etc. These activities have little to no government intervention, yet the possibilty of injury or death is quite high. (damn, there go those ins. premiums again.) To be continued.....(gotta get something to eat)....

Jack · Full Member Joined: Mar 15, 2005 Posts: 411

It's all about a freedom of chioce from which our fore fathers fought and died for and not for our government to start some damn dictatorship program, which directly effects the whole meaning of freedom of choice and freedom itself. If you'll look around yourselves ,it exsist everywhere. The United States Of America stands for" FREEDOM "and it's slowly slipping through our fingers........Jackl

thechknhwk

Don't get me started on health insurance...

And yes your auto/cycle insurance covers your medical bills if you have an accident. For instance, my daughter took a spill out of our jeep, my auto insurance covered all my expenses that health insurance didn't cover...

Wulf

Part 2
Can you imagine the government stepping in and demanding "YOU WILL WEAR A HELMET OR ELSE....". These folks would be in an uproar. ( Of course the apparell / helmet industry would just love that wouldn't they.)
Take boating for example. Most states require that there must be a lifejacket for each occupant IN the boat. Now they don't actually have to WEAR it, it just has to be IN the boat. Doesn't make much sense does it?
A few years ago, my ex and I were canoeing (sp?) on the S.C. side of Thurmond Lake about 50 yards off shore when the water cops came cruising up and wanted to see our lifejackets. I had left them on the hood of my truck back at the shore within sight of where we were. The fuckin' cops wrote me a 75.00 CASH ON THE SPOT ticket for not having the jackets IN the boat. Don't have to WEAR them, just IN the boat. Didn't have the cash on me so they wanted to take me to fucking JAIL right then and there (about 50 miles away at that). Finally talked them into letting my wife drive about 15 miles away to get the money out of an atm while I wait as the dastardly criminal that I was with the cops. The whole time she's gone they kept saying she better hurry up or they were gonna haul my ass in. My kids are standing there with us on shore ( they weren't in the boat during this most horrific crime) listening to all this wondering WTF. Oh, btw, They said that the 75.00 wasn't actually a ticket. It was my bond. They also told me I was more than welcome to fight it but they guarenteed that I would lose and that the actual fine was 450.00 should I show up to court OR I could just forfiet the 75.00 bond. My point to all this is what will happen when BIG BROTHER decides it's not enough to have life jackets IN the boat. "YOU MUST NOW WEAR LIFEJACKETS OR ELSE....". Do lifejackets save lives and should you wear one? Once again, common sense, statistics and reality say yes. Should the government force you to wear one? NO! (just keep it in the boat). There's not much difference in the two parallels in reference to freedom or government intrusion. We as responsible bikers realize the dangers just as much as those in the activities I mentioned before. Life is full of danger if you really live it. (getting out from behind the computer / tv / video game) It's part of what makes life worth living. So you decide. Don't let someone else decide for you . LIVE! Ride safe.
Wulf

robertpokerplayer

The government has came down and said that I will wear a helmet, of course I am in the military and use to having uncle sam tell me things like this. At the same time I wouldn't be caught dead without it. I am involved with law enforcement and have seen to many times where a helmet of any kind would have save someones life. Does this mean that I think that there should be a law requiring the use of helmets? NO, that is what this great country of ours is about, freedom to choose for yourself and that is why I defend this great country.

xs650mike

I had my noggin saved by a POS little puddin' bowl helmet back in 1959. I wore a helmet when riding even before it was a law in my state. No one wore a helmet when I started riding. They called me "Boy Racer" and ribbed me unmercifully. I wear leathers, boots and gloves too unless it's so frickin' hot it would be unsafe to wear leathers. That said, I don't believe in helmet laws. Just like I don't believe in prohibiting honest citizens from carrying arms for self defense. It's called personal freedom. As long as someone isn't hurting anyone or encroaching on someone else's freedom or enjoyment of life we should all be free to do as we please. That is what I think and believe.

grizld1

I'm with you, Mike. When it's too hot for leathers I wear a light-colored mesh jacket with CE body armor and vented gloves. I firmly believe that helmet laws interfere with the wholesome process of natural selection; anyone who chooses to ride without a lid should be free to do his/her part in cleaning up the gene pool.

xs650mike

Well you're safer than I am in hot weather...I just wear jeans (yeah I know they shred in a crash, don't ask) boots, long sleeved dress shirt, vest, gloves and of course helmet (half). The rest of the time I'm in unarmored leather which has worked in the past to save my hide. Since my first real street get-off in 1959 I've never since hit my head in a spill but I still always wear a helmet.

I notice that the cops have given up on enforcing the California helmet law. When these fools started putting DOT stickers on their little novelty beanies the cops decided to let Darwin enforce his law. Wink

Phred

I agree completely with Wulf's first post. The helmet laws were written by politicians with no idea of the facts (either about helmets *OR* about the historical "freedom of choice" we once enjoyed). Helmets are a good idea, no doubt, and I wear one (also a "beanie", but a DOT one), but they should be personal choice, although I could see requiring children and under 18 riders to wear one. The fact that it is illegal to wear a helmet in a cage is telling; the same reasons it is dangerous in a car also apply to bikes, or are two wheels governed by different laws of physics????

As for the 55 speed limit, that number came about by dividing the design speed of the interstate highway system in half (design speed was 110!).

xs650mike

Believe it or not there are some places on the Interstate System where 110 mph would definitely be unsafe. 55 mph was determined to be a speed above which gas mileage would rapidly decrease and the law was passed during the last gas crunch. Historically California had a state speed limit of 55 mph which was posted on highways. The law actually read "55 mph or reasonable and proper" "Reasonable and proper" is the basic speed law, theoretically there is no limit under the basic speed law as long as the speed is actually "reasonable and proper". This makes it a judgement call for the ticketing officer as to whether your speed is in fact unsafe. People used to drive 85 mph on California freeways without fear of getting cited. After the national 55 mph limit was instituted California did away with the basic speed law.

Now that the national limit has been rescinded the California law is 55 mph highway and 25 mph city unless otherwise posted. Most highways or city streets with 55 or 25 limits aren't posted at all. When one leaves say a 40 mph zone there is a sign that looks like a speed limit sign that says "END 40 ZONE" with the numbers really big in the middle of the sign. I often find myself stuck behind idiot clueless cagers going 40 mph in a 55 zone because all they noticed was the big "40" on the sign. I don't know why California started not posting limits in 55 and 25 zones except maybe to save on the cost of the signs. Unfortunately when they started this practice they made no effort to inform the public of the change and many people (especially old farts) don't know about it. (I may be old but I ain't an old fart!);-)

insulinboy

This is an interesting issue for me as I almost never ride without my moto specific boots (GP style race boots normaly) race leathers, and a full face helmet.. Ive seen too much road rash, and seen first hand how much good leathers do.. even on a blisteringly hot day I wear all my gear.. very rarely do I hop on any bike without it.. but I do on occasion.. but even a quick trip to the store Ill wear my jacket, gloves, and a full face helmet.. I think people should have the right to chose how much safty gear they wear however.. then again.. I like to do a lot of knee dragging riding.. thats why I ride.. to take sharp corners as quickly as the bike and I can handle..

xs650mike

Been looking at full race leathers in various catalogues. They actually cost more than any of my bikes did so I guess I won't be buying any soon. One of the reasons I'm into old bikes is that I can actually afford them! Just for bragging rights I've got a scuff on the left knee of my unarmored non-knee-puck leathers though.

Oh well, the idea is not to crash in the first place. Don't charge any blind corners people and watch for wet leaves during this fall (ouch!) season.

insulinboy

Fer $14 you can get the velcro to add to your riding pants so you can put a set of knee sliders on them.. just sew them on yourself or take it to a profesional talor (or a friend who can sew) think I saw it on newenough.com

xs650mike

I know about velcro but that's the only time I've ever touched a knee down, I usually don't even hang off. I was on an unfamiliar road and a decreasing radius turn, high crown in the road and insufficient cornering clearance had me hanging off with my knee out. I'm pretty proud that I didn't fall or go off the road but I shouldn't have gone into the corner that fast in the first place. BTW Cheng Shin Barracudas stick like glue!

smokeyman66

I cannot say from experience as I have not begun riding on the street yet, but from my work experience I can say that at the very least the helmet will allow for a open casket. I am a 16 year veteran firefighter/paramedic in northern Illinois and have seen everything from the guy with flip flops/ shorts/ and a tanktop walk away from flying over 4 cars after rear-ending a pickup to a guy in full gear looking like he just left the track and being killed. Over-all, I think that from my standpoint, being dirt and snow, and eating my fair share of bugs and rocks, when I do get to begin riding on the street (waiting for the Doc' release) I will undoubtedly wear a fullface helmet regardless of the weather.

BTW, I also believe in freedom of choice. I would not ever attempt to tell someone what to do. I would only say what I would do.

Besides, people making bad decisions keeps me in business. And remember accidents happen, otherwise they would call it an "on purpose".

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