Hello, can I get some advice?

turtlewrench · Posted: May 7, 2008, 11:43 pm Post subject: Hello, can I get some advice?

Hi all, I'm from NY. I have limited riding experiance, and now I have the freedom to ride again.

I have been looking into getting a motorcycle. I have found 3 in my limited price range. Two are a 1978, and 1979 KZ650, but I am not here to talk about that one(unless you know something about those critters).

I am here to ask about a 1982(please see note below) Yamaha 650 Heritage special. It has just under 12000 miles on it. It has a lot of pits on the chrome, and many of the grommets are cracked and worn. It hasn't been run in a year(or so I have been told). But I am assured that with clean gas and a new battery it will start and run no problem by the seller of course. So here are a few question I would to ask.

1) I have heard that these year bikes can have issues with the wiring harness. Is there true to it? I have fixed cars for a living so I can follow the diagrams. But some have warned me its a spaghetti like mess.

2) I have read and heard that they are know to have generator/starters that can burn out. This is said to damage the crank?

3) The chassis is said to wobble at speed

4) Pistons have been said to get worn around 15k?

5) A friend says that I may want to see if I can put wider tyres on for better grip. Could this be done? Or would I have the rear forks spread and a wider front fork. I ask because the tires on there now are dry rotted and I would want to replace anyway.

6) Drivers rear signal is cracked, but should be easy to fix

I can buy this bike and another XS650 I haven't seen yet which is a parts bike. It can all be mine for just $800.00. I am not in a rush to get a bike and I do not mind getting a project bike. But in the end I just want a bike that is a pleasure to ride and enjoy. I don't need a speed machine. Just something that I can restore which will be fun and reliable. Mt last bike was a Honda Rebel 450. It was fun but a little to small for a stout fellow like me.

Note: told it was an 88 but can't see they made one after 82. Also the 10th digit on VIN is a 4 and haven't found a decoder that can tell me what year that is. Tried a few things but couldn't read 9th digit, so I get an invalid vin response.

Thank you all for taking the time and reading my n00bish post. Thank you also to all who reply and help me

Shannon60 · Posted: May 8, 2008, 1:26 am Post subject: Re: Hello, can I get some advice?

all I can say is that these thins are an absolute gas to ride, they do need some tinkering but the possibilities are endless when it comes to mods just look at some of the pics members have posted, information is plentifull as well

jayel · Posted: May 8, 2008, 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Hello, can I get some advice?

1) just old that connectors are dirty, unplug everything clean them up and use di-electic grease when you put it back together, it's typical japanese wiring a bit of overkill but not bad

2) no crank damage, alternators are suspect but replacements available

3) if it does you've got something loose or are about to get a speeding ticket that will lift your license for a while

3) never heard that, must have used cheap or wrong oil

5) no need for wider tires, the newer tires grip much better than the stuff for even 5 years ago

6) yes see them on ebay all the time or change to something different

here's a model chart find the motor code under the front lower motor mount

kingwj · Posted: May 8, 2008, 7:55 am Post subject: Re: Hello, can I get some advice?

I think I'd get jumper cables and some clean gas and show up at the guy's house. If the bike starts then fine but if it doesn't I'd drop my price a bit, like half.

turtlewrench · Posted: May 8, 2008, 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Hello, can I get some advice?

OK checked out the bike again. It's a 83. Has compression, put some ether in and it pop over quick. The 2nd bike is a 78(standard it seems). It has compression, was running too. The carbs were clogged on it and the guy took them off to clean them but will give them to me also. The seat needs a new cover for it. So now this brings a few more questions

1) The 78 has disc brakes in the back, and the mag wheels. Can the switch these over to the 83? I like the wire spokes but I feel more comfortable with front and rear discs. So could I just run the disc system with the spokes or would I have to use the mag's?

2) We could only find one key. It worked the ignition for both bikes, and the seat lock. But it wouldn't unlock the helmet lock or either of the gas cap's. Is there a trick to get the caps to open, or a different key? Is there a way to get them off without the keys and just get new caps?

3) If I put a new cover on the 78 seat can I use it on the 83? The 83 has the backed second seat, sits a little higher than the drivers, is that called a king/queen seat?

4) the starter button on the 83 is missing the rubber cover, the 78 isn't can I swap this too? The whole control unit that is.

5) As I said all the grommets are worn and cracked do they make kits to replace these, and the rubber over the clutch and break levers?

6) The 83 rear driver signal is bent and lens cracked, the one on the 78 is good, can I swap this too?

I think I will fix the 83 and take some parts from the 78. Then I might try to fix the 78 and try to make some money back. Any idea's?

Thanks again. I am glad I found this site ut has been very helpful. The more I look at these bikes and this site the more I like them. When I close the deal I will upload pics of both so I can start sharing my new joy in life. Every week my Divorce gets better and better.

turtlewrench · Posted: May 8, 2008, 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Hello, can I get some advice?

Two more( I know I am a pain.) questions

The 83 still has points, correct?(had a 67 Bettle so big deal)

What is the best manual for these critters, or are they all the same?

Edit also the 83 had a header where both exhausts goto one pipe on the right side. I would imagine that this would work like a car increase flow. Would that change any of the power? I would also guess it would make it louder. Should I think about putting the megaphones on from the 78, would they fight. I just want a smooth running fun bike, hopefully I am half way there

Joseph · Full Member Joined: May 22, 2007 Posts: 767 Location: NY

turtle 83 probbobly has electronic igy no points. I have 2 keys for my 80 special 1 does everything and 1 does ignition only. I dont think the seats can swap out without modification.

jimdi · 650Rider Supporter Joined: Oct 27, 2005 Posts: 512

Motorcyle World likes the Yamaha 650 Series of motorcyles in the top 5 - yes - Top 5 of the most "bulletproof" motorcyles (trouble free) every built - anywhere in the world - ever.
Thats up there with BMW etc - note - not one harley ever made the list.

Consider that for $800.

turtlewrench · Posted: May 8, 2008, 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Hello, can I get some advice?

jimdi wrote:

Motorcyle World likes the Yamaha 650 Series of motorcyles in the top 5 - yes - Top 5 of the most "bulletproof" motorcyles (trouble free) every built - anywhere in the world - ever.
Thats up there with BMW etc - note - not one harley ever made the list.

Consider that for $800.

Put that way cant see how I could go wrong with getting the 78 and 83!

I am just wondering that maybe the release on the gas caps are rusted a little and maybe I can lube them and get them working.

Thanks guys you have me foaming at the mouth for these now. Was going to try to offer the guy700 for both but I guess I will just bite the bullet

Cooltouch · Posted: May 8, 2008, 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Hello, can I get some advice?

turtlewrench wrote:

1) The 78 has disc brakes in the back, and the mag wheels. Can the switch these over to the 83?

Yes, but you'll have to change out the swingarm too. Dunno if the '78 has an additional bracket or such for the rear master cylinder? No, you cannot mount the disk to the rear of the spoke hub -- it has a drum brake there already.

Quote::

2) We could only find one key. It worked the ignition for both bikes, and the seat lock. But it wouldn't unlock the helmet lock or either of the gas cap's. Is there a trick to get the caps to open, or a different key? Is there a way to get them off without the keys and just get new caps?

I've heard of ways to get the caps off, maybe somebody else here can elucidate? Each ignition and gas cap should have a number on or around the lock cylinder. If you've got a good locksmith in your area, you can give the 'smith the number and make/model/year of the bike, and he should be able to cut new keys for you. (I've done this successfully with a tank off a '75 XS650.)

Quote::

3) If I put a new cover on the 78 seat can I use it on the 83? The 83 has the backed second seat, sits a little higher than the drivers, is that called a king/queen seat?

The covers do not interchange, but if the seats come off the same way (pull back on the lever under the helmet lock, and lift the seat off), they should interchange. Sometimes you have to loosen and readjust the seat hinges so they line up correctly on the other bike.

Quote::

4) the starter button on the 83 is missing the rubber cover, the 78 isn't can I swap this too? The whole control unit that is.

I believe they're different. Check at MikesXS to be sure:

mikesxs.net

Quote::

5) As I said all the grommets are worn and cracked do they make kits to replace these, and the rubber over the clutch and break levers?

Ditto the above website.

Quote::

6) The 83 rear driver signal is bent and lens cracked, the one on the 78 is good, can I swap this too?

Yes, but you can buy a new one for pretty cheap from MikesXS.

Here are some thoughts that came to me as I read through your posts. First, if your '78 has cast wheels and a rear disk brake, it's a Special, not a standard. The rear drum brake on the XS650 works pretty well. Chances are you won't really need the added stopping power (if it exists) of the rear disk. Second, it sounds to me like the '78 is in pretty good shape, too. Does the guy have the titles for both bikes? If so, rather than scavenge a bunch of parts off the '78, you might be money ahead by getting both bikes running, decide which one you like better, and sell the other. Both are Specials, and a clean, good running Special these days can sell for close to twice what you will pay for the two in non-running condition -- sometimes even more, depending on your location.

Best,

ichael

jimdi · 650Rider Supporter Joined: Oct 27, 2005 Posts: 512

look you can probably count on 2 things needing work on these bikes if they have been sitting - carbs will need to be cleaned and rebuilt (as with any motor) and maybe the rotor in the generator MAY need to be replaced if the battery doesn't charge. Other than that you are pretty solid. You can say the same or more won't be wrong any other used bike you buy.

nj1639 · Posted: May 8, 2008, 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Hello, can I get some advice?

When I started looking at the xs650's, my mentor suggested going for the newer ones with the electronic ignition. Love my '83. I believe the '78 has points ignition?
I'd keep the bikes seperate, wouldn't interchange parts. Heck, focus on getting one running at a time if you can afford it. Love my '83.

turtlewrench · Posted: May 10, 2008, 2:07 am Post subject: Re: Hello, can I get some advice?

Well I got the bikes today. Here's the before pic's. Everything looks in good orders except the front fork on the 78. Something is bent on the right side. I plan on getting the 83 going first. The only thing I don't love about the 83 is the seat and the painted engine. And to be honest when I look at the blue on the 78, I like the color. After I get the 83 running maybe I do some custom stuff. I am enjoying it so much I am thinking I might try to start a side business of old bike repair and restoration. Any who enjoy the pic's.

turtlewrench · Posted: May 10, 2008, 2:08 am Post subject: Re: Hello, can I get some advice?

Couldn't get the 83 in last post so here it is. Also on the 83 the speedo goes up to 80mph. Can I get someone to post a pic of the org speedo tack cluster? To me something seems off.

nj1639 · Posted: May 10, 2008, 7:22 am Post subject: Re: Hello, can I get some advice?

Nice catch there, turtle.
From the pics it looks like the '83 speedo/tach is correct. That's the epa 85 mph speedo. Swapped out mine for a 140 mph '82 speedo, though who's gonna go 140 mph? I believe it registers higher mph better than the stock epa.
Was wondering about the seats. Do you think the cover and foam on your '78 would change over to the seat pan on your '83? I'd like to be able to scootch me arse back a bit when riding my '83.

pumps · Posted: May 10, 2008, 8:36 am Post subject: Re: Hello, can I get some advice?

I see lots of potential there. Some wrenching, some elbow grease, some shining. You get that dumb ass grin like the rest of us.

turtlewrench · Posted: May 10, 2008, 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Hello, can I get some advice?

pumps wrote:

I see lots of potential there. Some wrenching, some elbow grease, some shining. You get that dumb ass grin like the rest of us.

Well to be honest while I was cleaning out my basement and setting up shop, I wore it all day long. I am a mechanic by trade, but do to the economy I have been swinging a hammer. So this should keep me busy. But really if I have luck with it I might start turning a wrench in my spare time and fix old bikes. Not many around me know them that well. And if they do they are into Harley's.

I will be taking photo's of my project and post a few here and there.

turtlewrench · Posted: May 10, 2008, 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Hello, can I get some advice?

nj1639 wrote:

Nice catch there, turtle.

Was wondering about the seats. Do you think the cover and foam on your '78 would change over to the seat pan on your '83? I'd like to be able to scootch me arse back a bit when riding my '83.

Thanx. I am not it will but I do feel a little close to the bars when sitting on it. As I said in another post I got to find a stock seat for it cheap.

nj1639 · Posted: May 10, 2008, 10:07 am Post subject: Re: Hello, can I get some advice?

Might be someone out there that'd trade out for your king/queen?

turtlewrench · Posted: May 10, 2008, 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: Hello, can I get some advice?

So I took off the tank, then petcock and found min surface rust in there. Carb's look real clean. Only problem was that the choke was stuck. A little WD40 and some tapping and now it slides freely. Looking into the cylinders from the carb end I see little carbon build up, little crap on to of the valves. But it looks as if the factory painted the inside of the opening from the carb to the head. Is this correct, because it is to even to be deposits. IF it will help tomorrow I will have more time and can post a few pic's to show what I am taking about.

Guess the whats next list should include some Ohm tests on the Stator and electric and see if it's good, while I have things open.

Buzz · Full Member Joined: Jun 27, 2005 Posts: 37

I have a 1982 Heritage like yours.

1) I have heard that these year bikes can have issues with the wiring harness. Is there true to it? I have fixed cars for a living so I can follow the diagrams. But some have warned me its a spaghetti like mess.

Clean all your connectors.

2) I have read and heard that they are know to have generator/starters that can burn out. This is said to damage the crank?

I've never heard of that.

3) The chassis is said to wobble at speed

I had mine up to 90 when I first got it and it didn't wobble but it did feel loose. I replaced the stock plastic swing arm bearings with bronze and it's solid as a rock.

4) Pistons have been said to get worn around 15k?

I've got 25K on mine and it has great compression. I use Mobil 1 10W50 and change it every 1500 miles.

5) A friend says that I may want to see if I can put wider tyres on for better grip. Could this be done? Or would I have the rear forks spread and a wider front fork. I ask because the tires on there now are dry rotted and I would want to replace anyway.

If you change the tires to a bigger size you will get a different response on cornering. the stock rear tire is about as big as you put on there . The swing arm limits the size of the tire.

6) Drivers rear signal is cracked, but should be easy to fix

Try Mike's XS.

Hope this helps.

Buzz

turtlewrench · Posted: May 17, 2008, 5:14 pm Post subject: Re: Hello, can I get some advice?

Update. I have the 83 running. It back fires a little, not sure if it's my carb or timing. Waiting for a gas tank. Gonna fill it up with 93 and carb cleaner and go from there. So close but so far

nj1639 · Posted: May 17, 2008, 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Hello, can I get some advice?

Was wondering if you got the keys straightened out on the tanks? On my tanks, the key fits in and then you have to push down and turn to open. On my '82 and '83, the keys fit the ignition, gas cap and the helmet lock.

turtlewrench · Posted: May 17, 2008, 11:58 pm Post subject: Re: Hello, can I get some advice?

nj1639 wrote:

Was wondering if you got the keys straightened out on the tanks? On my tanks, the key fits in and then you have to push down and turn to open. On my '82 and '83, the keys fit the ignition, gas cap and the helmet lock.

Well the key for the 78 works the 83 Ing. The guy found the key for the 83, I pick it up mon. I got a used tank, with a key. So now I have to see if I can find a matching Ing for that key or just 2 key it.

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