oil filter question

geezerbiker · Full Member Joined: Sep 15, 2007 Posts: 49

'82 XS650 special. Since the oil filter that sits in the sump costs $24.00 to replace, I'm thinking of not putting one there. I know, I know, bad idea. But if all that means is more frequent oil changes, that's okay. What I'm wondering is if that filter isn't there, will the oil not be able to flow the way it should?

murph · Posted: January 5, 2008, 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: oil filter question

You can replace a ripped sump filter.... Here
I don't think running your bike without one is a good idea.

xsjohn · Posted: January 5, 2008, 10:21 pm Post subject: Re: oil filter question

Don't even start it without a sump filter.....one little chunk of the starter gear in the oil pump and its over...........can epoxy the high velocity side where it rips to keep the screen from collapsing......plenty of other area there on the sides and back to take in the oil.........did mine 40 thou ago and it is still ok........

John

ttmaniac · Full Member Joined: Dec 22, 2006 Posts: 468

I did the right thing and put a brand new sump filter in my bike.

Next time I opened the sump, it was torn just like the old one.

As far as I'm concerned, just run the ripped one. Otherwise it's just a waste of money.

But hey, I could be wrong.

y point is I've been running a ripped one 95% of the time I had the bike and nothing bad happened.

Changing oil often would be more worthwhile I think.

Besides, I don't use a starter.

grizld1 · Posted: January 6, 2008, 3:14 am Post subject: Re: oil filter question

The old 650 Society trick is to solder a second layer over that weak spot where the pump sucks a rip in the screen. Just clean the filter with acetone first--works every time. 40K, John? You've got me thinking about setting that second layer in with epoxy instead.

xsjohn · Posted: January 6, 2008, 11:17 am Post subject: Re: oil filter question

Was thinking a L shapped bracket could be welded on the top and going over and down the high velocity side so the element would still be underneath....like a 1/4" or so from the element along the side that gives in......I think the oil slinging on them off the crank at high velocity is what is caving them in there.........

That is a pretty large filter so I just epoxy over the places that seem to fail....

John

geezerbiker · Full Member Joined: Sep 15, 2007 Posts: 49

Okay, I'm a moron, but I threw away the old sump filter, assuming it was worthless. Trying to repair didn't occur to me. I wouldn't have to worry about bits of any part of the starter, because I removed the starter and will be going kick only. My only concern is that the sump cover seems to have a sort of port going through it. Is the sump filter necessary in order to direct the flow of oil, or doesn't it matter?

Tomterrific · Posted: January 6, 2008, 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: oil filter question

Why don't you just buy the filter screen? It's good policy to have a screen in the sump. Even new cars still run a screen over the oil pickup. In the case of the XS there are gears and a clutch spinning in the same oil the engine is going to suck up. Replace the screen.

General list tip for the day: Never, and I mean NEVER throw any old motorcycle parts away. In many cases these parts become unobtainium. Junk to you is treasure to somebody, probably you in a few moments.

Tom

xsjohn · Posted: January 6, 2008, 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: oil filter question

Don't think it directs the oil just filters out particles..??? ..but it could help break up the foaming thing in the oil maybe..and help keep the oil in the bottom by reducing the slinging action....??.....that's why I wasn't so worried about epoxying up the broke higher velocity side thinking since it is so big and that taking the oil from the low velocity side might reduce gulping the froth..???..if there is any there...who knows you might be the first one to 100 thousand miles without a sump filter......the clearances in the oil pump are very very close though and a piece of junk from anywhere can bust it....or hog out the tight clearances and reduce it's efficency......increased side clearances over time and it pumps less.....checked my side clearance a 30 thou and it was at max so I reduced it to .002 thou......manual shows the correct side clearances....

Here is just an idea........below.....a shield to reduce the damaging effect of the slinging oil it that is what is causing filter failure.........

John

dps-rider · Full Member Joined: Aug 25, 2007 Posts: 100

John, so that's what breaks them, the oil slinging off the crank? Never really thought about it but it makes sense.

xsjohn · Posted: January 6, 2008, 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: oil filter question

I think so.....with as little as the oil pump puts out I can think of no other good reason.......couldn't be from the huge suction which isn't happening.......

John

jayel · Posted: January 6, 2008, 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: oil filter question

I think it's thick (cold) oil over pressurizing the mesh, starting out before the engine has a chance to warm up causes them to rip as the oil pressure increases

xsjohn · Posted: January 6, 2008, 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: oil filter question

3-to max 15lbs oil pressure ain't much.....I can pee faster than that oil pump is working on a good night....cold oil slinging on it could have a more dramatic effect........it is usually the high velocity side that gives out..........like your face in a cold rain maybe......still some protection over the high velocity side could make since ...I don't have sump filter problems so something in what I am doing is worth looking at......

Seems like if pressure was the problem the smaller filter on the field side of the pump would suffer..........

xsjohn

xsleo · Posted: January 7, 2008, 2:06 am Post subject: Re: oil filter question

i saw a sump extension on a german site, i think it was, anyway with the extension it would keep the filter down away from any oil thrown off the crank. the extension was first built to add oil and cooling capacity. if it helps prevent filter damage it may be worth studying. i always thought that more oil capacity would be a good thing. 18 wheeler engines last a long time, could it be partly be that they hold like 7 gallons of oil? i don't think that i need to hauk 7 gallons around but say 4 of 5 quarts wouldn't be any problem.

xsjohn · Posted: January 7, 2008, 9:20 am Post subject: Re: oil filter question

I checked it out and you can't use a side stand with it and it sticks down pretty far.........

John

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