tools needed for starter repair

camoweasel · Full Member Joined: Sep 14, 2006 Posts: 50

My kit to fix the gear4 for my 1974 TX650A just came in. From reading, all you need to do is drain the oil, take off the right sidecase, remove the cluch basket. What tools will I need to get the job done?

jayel

clutch hub holder tool from mikes would be real helpful and a hand impact screwdriver other than that just standard tools

camoweasel · Full Member Joined: Sep 14, 2006 Posts: 50

let's say I didn't have one of these tools, could i still get it off using regular hand tools in a crude way i guess. It's always worked for me in the past.

5twins · Full Member Joined: Aug 05, 2006 Posts: 1616

deleted

camoweasel · Full Member Joined: Sep 14, 2006 Posts: 50

wow this seems like more work then I expected. All I thought I needed to do was just remove the clutch basket as a whole piece then just slide it back on when finished.

jimmer

Thats all you gotta do ... almost... just gotta do it right Smile

Damn that was a nice tutorial 5twins!

royfisk

motion pro makes a real sweet tool for this project that looks like visegrips with large L shaped teeth on the front. Its fairly cheap and I have used it on numerous different model bikes. plus other thigs too. very worthy tool to have in anyones arsenal.

camoweasel · Full Member Joined: Sep 14, 2006 Posts: 50

does anyknow if a hand held impact screwdriver will work? I tried using just a screwdriver and couldn't do it. Also is there an easy way of taking off the basket bolt NOT using clutch holder tool?

royfisk

I usually use a air impact and hold the basket with my hand unless it is stuck. then I will use a clutch tool and hand impact driver. But I have not done that in years. A good air impact such as the ingersol rand 2135 will do it every time. Ask around if someone has a 1/2inch drive electric impact or even better a snap-on cordless one, they will get it off. Otherwise with a hand impact I know of no other way without a clutch tool.

camoweasel · Full Member Joined: Sep 14, 2006 Posts: 50

2 quick questions:

Will a clutch tool for a honda work for a honda clutch becvause nonw of the ymaha dealers have them and the honda dealer says they do.

What happens if the kick starter shaft falls out. How do I know its back in properly? Make suer the metal notch is in the holder and hook is hooked to the top portion?

royfisk

Try it It is possible they have the same hub patterns I dont really know. But like I said I would use a air impact. As for the kick shaft I beleive that is explained in your service manual.

5twins · Full Member Joined: Aug 05, 2006 Posts: 1616

camoweasel · Full Member Joined: Sep 14, 2006 Posts: 50

well the only impact tools I have are an impact screwdriver set and a hammer so air is out of the question. After searching part numbers the only other bikes I found that match up are 650s. The one shop said they had a universal clutch hub took for 35 bucks. I dont want to spend anynore money. If I could find another metal ring, I would use that as the tool becasue I have a pair of vice gips here.

camoweasel · Full Member Joined: Sep 14, 2006 Posts: 50

what about if, I reinstalled the springs without the pressure plate and had some one hold the bike still or roll the bikes front tire up to a wall and then try to loosen up the bolt? Good idea or will I break something else in the drivetrain?

5twins · Full Member Joined: Aug 05, 2006 Posts: 1616

camoweasel · Full Member Joined: Sep 14, 2006 Posts: 50

well to make a short story, I gave up and decided to do it again on a later day when I can get some proper tools. So I putting back to gether, got the springs back on and tightened down but it seems like even when the clutch is pulled in theres still a bit of friction. I bet as soon as i put oil back in that friction ought to disapper right? When I let go of the clutch is locks the back wheel as normal. The springs bottomed out just like the book said and torqued them to specs so I bet as soon as I put oil in it i should be fine? Right??

UPDATE: I tried soaking the clutch in oil to see if it would help. Turns out, oil makes the clutches stick even more. Stupid me thinking why it would work. First time I had the PP on it seemed as iff the screws wouldnt stop turning like they wouldnt stop turning. So I took off the plate again and tried it again a different way. Now when I turn the screws they stop just like manual says. Now it seems as if when the clutch is pulled in the plates dont want to seperate. I have to actually use my fingers and break them loose so the bike can coast in gear. I wondering if i boogered up one of the sides using a screwdriver to hold the basket in place. Would a tiny little bur do this to the clutch? Do i turn the screws all the way in till they bottom out? I'll probably end up pulling PP back off and sanding don burrs or what not to make it work, or do I need to run it??

royfisk

Theres alot of bikes out there that have drag on them when not running. Some bikes you have to rock back and forth before the clutch will dissengage. If however it is exsessive did you adjust the cable properly? As for your problem of removeing the basket Why dont you put the old girl into the back of a truck and bring it to a shop and have them remove the basket for you. It will not cost you much if you already have everything off and all they have to do is remove the retaining nut. probably free. But if you are having this much diffaculty removeing this then mayby you should while there have them do the job for you up to the point where you do the final assembly. It would save you a bunch of time and give you the advanyage of knowing that it is correct. Shouldnt cost more then a hours labor.

5twins · Full Member Joined: Aug 05, 2006 Posts: 1616

royfisk

5twins that is not uncommon on many oil bath type clutches. I have always thought that the oil viscosity caused it. It is more appearent when useing heavier weight oils such as the lymy's and harleys used. Not so much in the japaneese bikes because early on they started useing 10w30 and 40 weight oils. The xs's however called for heavier 20-40 or I beleive 20-50 oil. Personally I will run 10/40 belray semi senthetic. The clutch will work much smoother then with the diesel oil. As for the engine I will get arguements on it but I will bet it will last just as long and in the mean time I will enjoy smoother clutch action and much smoother shifting. I would go with the full synthetic oil if I were changeing the clutch. I learned a long time ago dont put synthetic oil onto a clutch that has been broken in on regular motor oil. It will slip or be slipping within 30 miles. Ive done this myself and seen at least 2 other people do it all with the same results. But wow full synthetic oil improves shifting dramatically. I used atf in a harley transmission and that was another dramatic improvement. But I think that what I am saying is with a little experementing with fluids you might be surprised at how the whole bike performs.

camoweasel · Full Member Joined: Sep 14, 2006 Posts: 50

UPDATE: I got the clutch back together and everything back together. Start it up, clutch works great but I think I may have knocked the timming out by wrenching the hell out of that bolt and holding the front tire against a wall in first gear. The reason is, it will run ok for about 2 min then it just wants to die. But when its normal, it cuts out a high rpms and the plugs are now black. When i bought the bike this summer it did the same thing. Turned out to be the timming. Can someone tell me how possible it is that timming is now off by wrenching on that bolt. Im going to take it to a shop to be timmed. The bike ran smoothly before i took off the sidecase.

royfisk

its not possible

camoweasel · Full Member Joined: Sep 14, 2006 Posts: 50

well i decided this morning to take it for ride and pound the crap out of it like the old timers always told me. Well they were right, after about 10 min it rode pretty much great again. The only problem is, is when its hits about 5000, it starts to spitter and sputter. Sometimes when I rev the engine ata redlight, it will spitter and sputter just for a sec then be fine? I tightened up the cam chain, to where it says in the manual cause the pushrod was in just tiny little bit but now its flush. It wired how bit barely ran last night and today it runs pretty good except for higher rpms.

SPEIRMOR · Full Member Joined: Jul 13, 2008 Posts: 10

I need to do the same thing with my '74.
(1) Is this a good opportunity to replace the thrust washer too ?.
Here are the parts I've selected from Mikes.

18-0864 Gasket - Right Hand Crank Case Cover (Clutch)
35-5021 Clutch Holder Tool
24-6522 Starter Gear Repair Kit
39-6505 Needle Bearing With Thrust Washer

(2) besides Oil to complete the Job is this all I need or did I forget something?

5twins · Full Member Joined: Aug 05, 2006 Posts: 1616

What Happened to 650rider.com?

Yamaha xs650