Do I really need the starter relay?

ejdirin · Posted: July 15, 2009, 8:41 pm Post subject: Do I really need the starter relay?

Hi everybody,

Just wiring up my chopper project. I got a generic car key starter from Pep Boys (Dorman 85936). It has battery, starter, ignition and accessory hookups. It pretty much eliminates the need for a kill switch and starter button. My question is, do I really even need the starter relay anymore? My only thought is the direct current off the battery might be too much for the key starter to handle. Is there anyway I can get rid of the starter relay all together? The more I can take off of the electrical system the better...

Thanks in advance!

ejdirin

A little more info.....I'm running of a 1979 with Pamco Pete's new electronic iggy system....

yamaman

Wont need a relay if you ditch the starter, be a man & kick it!
If kicking it isn't your thing, then a switch, or the wiring to it, will burn out pretty fast without a relay! Cars also have starter relays you realise?

ejdirin

I like the cut of your jib! Thanks for the advice

xsleo

You could get a starter switch from a tractor supply place, hook it in place of the starter relay. It's a big push button switch. Heavy enough to handle your starter current. You could even mount it somewhere so you can just step on the button to start the bike.

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

This seems unclear to me -- are you guys talking about the safety relay or the starter solenoid?

ejdirin

Sorry about the confusion. I meant the solenoid. I found a nice place to mount it on the rear fender under the seat. Shouldn't get in the way. I have the whole thing running with just the genric car key start, the solenoid, and I'm waiting on a regulator/rectifier to come in the mail. I'm going to modify it to run on the 79. This is a hell of a lot better then the stock 650 harness! What a mess that thing is!

Any suggestions on clean ways to do the fuses? I like the minifuses. Should I just do inline or is there a nice cluster out there?

xsleo · Last edited by xsleo on September 6, 2009, 6:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

I don't know what reg/rec you have coming. Pamcopete's Radio Shack rec, and the Chrysler reg mods are easy and not very expencive. I did my 75 for under $25.
I rewired my 75 and used an inline fuse holder to feed the main switch with a 20 amp fuse. I then feed power from the switch to a six fuse block. I then used a fuse for each circuit.
One for lights, one for ignition, one for brake lights, one for turn signals, ect. How ever you want to wire it.
The fuse block uses the larger atc blade fuses. Advance Auto sells it for $8.59. I'll put up a pic of mine to show where and how big it is. I mounted it on a steel plate so I could use some of the holes in the battery box.
It looks better now, I have cleaned up the wiring since I took that pic.

jeepurz

[quote="ejdirin"]Sorry about the confusion. I meant the solenoid. I found a nice place to mount it on the rear fender under the seat. Shouldn't get in the way. I have the whole thing running with just the genric car key start, the solenoid, and I'm waiting on a regulator/rectifier to come in the mail. I'm going to modify it to run on the 79. This is a hell of a lot better then the stock 650 harness! What a mess that thing is!

Any suggestions on clean ways to do the fuses? I like the minifuses. Should I just do inline or is there a nice cluster out there?[/quote]

I used a suzk savage, 92 yr goin by memory, two fuse block spade type, like 12.00 from dealer , neat n easy.

ejdirin

Its the reg/rec from the 80-84 XS's (the one with the finned heat sink on it). Found a good one on eBay for cheap and thought it'd be a good clean fix. I followed a thread on another message board to modify it to fit the 79.

Here's Pamcopete's advice regarding the fix:

"Well, you're on the right track. The yellow wire would normally operate the safety relay, which you don't have, so just tie it off. The combined reg/rect from the newer bikes provides a switched ground to one of the brushes on the alternator. The other brush has to be connected to battery. On the older bikes, like your '79, the regulator provides a switched battery to one of the brushes, the other brush is connected to ground.

So, to use the combo reg/rect, you will have to isolate the grounded brush and apply battery to it so it will work with the switched ground from the regulator.

The easiest way to do this is to remove the three screws that hold the grounded brush in the holder and replace them with three nylon screws (not plastic) and then connect the brush to +12."

ejdirin

XSLEO,

In fact it was you who gave me the advice on wiring it up! Thanks for the help. It should be in the mail soon....

xsleo

Well I have a reg/rec from an 82 Seca That I hooked in to test it. It worked just the same as my Pamcopete setup. It will wire in the same way.

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

Does anybody here know how much amperage the XS650 draws when you crank it? Just curious.

xsjohn

Jimmy that's something you will never need to know........... Laughing

Retiredgentleman

The starter relay is rated for 100 amps, so that's probably the expected current draw.

xsleo

In my Yamaha manual that covers the TX A XS B-D models the starter draws 12 volts-37 amps at 11,000 or more rpm. with load 8.3 volts 100 amps-3900 rpm or more. I am assumeing they are using a battery at 14.5 volts to do the checks.

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

Retiredgentleman wrote:

The starter relay is rated for 100 amps, so that's probably the expected current draw.

Yeah, RG, I just wondered: The old Type-1 VW (12-volt) starter drew about 150 cranking amps. Thing is when the solenoid first engaged, the amp draw would surge to 300+ and then quickly settle back to 150. So I was thinking, if you wanted to do away with the solenoid on the XS650, you better get a stab-button that will stand up to the initial surge, whatever that happens to be.

John, I hear you don't know the answer. It's OK. I don't either. That's why I asked. Somebody else might want to know, though.

xsjohn

""""John, I hear you don't know the answer. It's OK. I don't either. That's why I asked. Somebody else might want to know, though."""""

I do try to not focus on too much useless informatiom...... too busy with riding and all..... Laughing

xsjohn

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

John, I hope I never have as much fun as you. You look so happy with them feathers in your hat, I don't think I could stand it myself. The granite chin, the chiseled features, the deadly glint in your eye. Obviously a natural born killer. You look like a poster child for morbid homophobia. You even got the right hat -- but how come you don't got no Indiana Joan's (I can't help it) leather jacket and a bullwhip?

xsjohn

Better than having all them feathers stuck out my ass.... which most probably think they should be....... with all the opinions on this site I can't understand why they have put up with me as long as they have.......

Just the ole fart trying to get to 100K and then do it again if I have the strength.... or a deer crosses my path.......

Will say though that lately this thing is really pleasant to ride..... and it did take me long enough to figure it.....even with my experience it was a challenge.... to make a half decent roadster out of it....... kinda gives me the initiative to roll it another 100k... god be willing....or the river don't rise......

And lastly ....I've not made it to a 100K yet.....but it does look promising now......

xsjohn

What Happened to 650rider.com?

Yamaha xs650