Will electrical improvements effect the value?

YamahaRick · Full Member Joined: Dec 01, 2008 Posts: 85

Hi Guys,
I've got a 1980 Special in mint condition. 9500 original miles and never been messed with in any way except 4 the addition of a crash guard/h-way bar. This bike is as clean as it gets 100 stock. The guy i bought it from was having nagging electrical problems(imagine that!), but I replaced rotor and regulator with all brand new parts and also added 2 additional body grounds in to the system. Voila, no more issues. So this bike is a pristine good runner but while trying to hunt down the intermittent short/battery drain problem i saw a couple of things i didn't like, mainly the brown wire from the ignition switch feedin all the power to the fuse box. I want to run a relay straight off the battery to feed the power out and relegate the brown wire to trigger duty for the relay. Common sense upgrade seems to me but i want to make sure should i choose to sell it that it might negatively effect the value. Any suggestion, ideas or rants for me?

pamcopete

YamahaRick,

The relay idea is a good one. It's like getting a new ignition switch for $5.

You could just do the mod in such a way that it is easily restored to stock, because you are correct, buyers are very leary of any electrical mod because so many of them are screwed up or inappropriate. (The mods, not the buyers!)

One way to accomplish that would be to get the three terminal plug / socket for the ignition switch from Mikes and wire the red and blue wires straight through from the plug to the socket and run the brown wire from the switch socket to the relay and back to the plug. Just unplug it and remove the relay when you go to sell. No cut or spliced wires to have to explain.

Don't forget to put a fuse in the feed from the battery to the relay contact.

YamahaRick · Full Member Joined: Dec 01, 2008 Posts: 85

Hey thats a great idea. I have and old switch layin around I can bogart the plug off anyway. Just unplug and go. coll, i wasnt thinking like that. Thats why I get on here. lol. Good looking out on the fuse too. my layout didn't include one. It will now.Thanks. YR

pamcopete

YamahaRick,

Well, about the old switch...you will need both the plug and the socket, available at Mikes for about $4. They come as a set.

Alternatively, you could fix up the old switch, cut and splice the brown wire to / from the relay on the switch side of the plug socket, then just replace the switch with the good one when you sell.

YamahaRick · Full Member Joined: Dec 01, 2008 Posts: 85

Ahhh...true. good idea. I'm on it as its too dang cold to ride again today.

pamcopete

YamahaRick

And, glad to see you are concerned with preserving a mint condition XS650.

YamahaRick · Full Member Joined: Dec 01, 2008 Posts: 85

Thanks! LOL. If you only knew me. I think I may sell it as it the urge to chop is strong in me.........tho really, everything I have is modified in some way and I really believe that when you find a really nice example you should keep it intact. That goes for bikes and cars. I've got a 289 65 fastback and i'm torn between stock and modified since so many are modified and nobodys doin resto's anymore it seems. But since I gotta buy a new hood anyway it might as well be a Shelby! Twisted Evil

pumps

YamahaRick- Here is a link to a site doing pretty much what you are wanting I think. Did it to my old KZ650 and it was an improvement.

www.wgcarbs.com/index....&Itemid=26

Xumi

There are a few of us out there doing full restores - but it seems we are few indeed, YamahaRick.

I'm very much in the same boat you are.. Do I fix it Right, or keep it stock? So far, I've kept my restoration 100% pure, and haven't bought/fabricated anything non stock, but I'm worried that once I get the old girl running that she's going to suffer from the various maladies this bike typically offers up.

YamahaRick · Full Member Joined: Dec 01, 2008 Posts: 85

THats a great link. Exactly what I am after. The big problem and why I want to run that relay is that the bron wire coming off the ignion is simply not a sufficient guage to handle the power requirements effectively and reliably. Its about 2 sizes too small to be truthful. Like WG has got on there it would solve a myriad of problems. I came by this on my XS750 bikes with the CDI. Not enuff voltage for the ignition so hard start all the time unless you kick it.
Stock restos are wonderful and need to be done no mistake, but Xumi has got a point. If its gonna be a rider, where do we find that line between functionality and originality? I think Pamcopete has got it nailed down with running it all with the plug in so it can be removed. Thats what I'm doin.

pamcopete

YamahaRick

That link is for the coil and ignition system only. I think that you wanted to run the brown wire to / from the relay, so everthing would be powered by the relay contacts.

If you are only going to run the coil through the relay, then you can just match the stock connectors from the red / white wire to turn the relay on and likewise, match the connector to the coil from the relay contact. This would allow you to simply unplug the relay when you sell the bike to remove the relay and restore it to stock.

As far as the wire size is concerned, it's not the size of the wire that causes the low current and hard starting...it's the cheap brass contacts in the ignition switch and kill switch. The relay has precious metal contacts which have a lower resistance to begin with and are more resistant to arcing. You can also install a new relay every year for $5.

BigGeorge · Full Member Joined: Apr 13, 2008 Posts: 267

My 2 xs650s will most likely outlive me and for me to keep them totally stock and pristine and wait for the value to skyrocket aint gonna happen. Depressing as it may be at 62 I probably have less than 20 good yrs or so left to ride so I will enjoy them, change what ever needs changing and let the next owners deal with my changes....

pumps

I say do what you want to them to make them more fun , agreeing with you BigGeorge.

YamahaRick · Full Member Joined: Dec 01, 2008 Posts: 85

pamcopete wrote:

YamahaRick

That link is for the coil and ignition system only. I think that you wanted to run the brown wire to / from the relay, so everthing would be powered by the relay contacts.

If you are only going to run the coil through the relay, then you can just match the stock connectors from the red / white wire to turn the relay on and likewise, match the connector to the coil from the relay contact. This would allow you to simply unplug the relay when you sell the bike to remove the relay and restore it to stock.

As far as the wire size is concerned, it's not the size of the wire that causes the low current and hard starting...it's the cheap brass contacts in the ignition switch and kill switch. The relay has precious metal contacts which have a lower resistance to begin with and are more resistant to arcing. You can also install a new relay every year for $5.

Very true, but the concept is what I was really after. Same final purpose really(fixin a problem) and just change the wire colors. AS far as the switch goes you are 100% CORRECT. ITS CHEEZY. LOL. But the relay mod will deal with that as well. I still believe the wire size is too small tho. If I was going from scratch(which I have had to do unfortunately)I would go 2 sizes up on that lead just to be safe. Theres nothing I hate worse than sitting at a light and smelling burnin wire. Really no fun. SO now I just overcompensate due to past bad experiences. I'm sure everyone on here can empathize. Lol

YamahaRick · Full Member Joined: Dec 01, 2008 Posts: 85

HELL Yeah Lets Just Ride Ya'll! Resale be damned. But seriously every collectible vehicle goes thru certain stages. Corvettes(among other cars) went thru a phase during the first few years of their rise to collectability where in order to have a 100 point car you had to have everything on the car as it came from the factory, right down to overspray on various chassis parts due to poor paint work at the factory. Thankfully the PTB have gotten some sense and as long as it looks correct it is correct allowing for safety and performance upgrades in the name of sanity. And you dont have to recreate obvious factory defects anymore. So we will probably go thru something like that with the XS models too. Nobody really knows where to draw the line but we'll figure it out. 2 things I know for sure. 1)They are not making anymore and 2)they have a loyal following to match the Z1 or even The Motor Company products I'd wager. SO lets have fun and ride these babies like they were meant to be ridden, but if you find that reference original, put it back for a rainy day just in case the market explodes...lol

YamahaRick · Full Member Joined: Dec 01, 2008 Posts: 85

Wow Pete your ignition rocks!. I believe I'll be putting one on my 73 TX.
Hmmm come to think of it I got a tx750 too. Any way to make that work?

oldbikenut

BigGeorge wrote:

My 2 xs650s will most likely outlive me and for me to keep them totally stock and pristine and wait for the value to skyrocket aint gonna happen. Depressing as it may be at 62 I probably have less than 20 good yrs or so left to ride so I will enjoy them, change what ever needs changing and let the next owners deal with my changes....

I would think as long as there are no major changes what's the big deal. I have only seen a few bikes(30 years old or so) that I would consider perfect and most of those I'm sure took some sort of work to get that way. Most of are bikes will not end up in a museum even as much as we treasure them!

Xumi

You make a great point, oldbikenut.. and once I get this puppy running, I'll probably make reliability mods if nothing else, just keep it easy to return to stock as suggested.

oldbikenut

Here's a picture of my last bike I fixed up 71 RT1 360, nearly all original and actually had not ran since 1972. I tried to keep it as original as possible, but I had to draw the line on certain items such as tires, tank badges and other parts I can't think of now. Just the tires and badges in NOS would have had set me back at least $1,000. This is one of my favorite bikes I have ever owned but I could not justify spending that kind of money and like BigGeorge said, the next owner can make the changes if they wish.

Sorry to kind of get off subject but I really don't think small electrical changes, especially if they are benficial are a big deal, just my 2 cents!

pumps

OBN , really cool bike! Good work. I see a lot of sweat-equity there on two wheels not to mention $.

oldbikenut

pumps wrote:

OBN , really cool bike! Good work. I see a lot of sweat-equity there on two wheels not to mention $.

Thanks pumps. I feel very fortunate to have found such an original and not so messed with bike and yes many many hours have went into this one. Like alot of us that buy these old bikes, they are the cheap part it's getting them looking good that costs the $.

YamahaRick, it is really cool to have an original example of any XS and I think it wise if in that condition to keep it that way. I would just make as few changes as possible and as stated earlier, just make sure the changes can be easily reversed. Who knows the person you sell it to may not care about originality and may make major changes. When are we going to see some pictures of this bike?

YamahaRick · Full Member Joined: Dec 01, 2008 Posts: 85

Thanks for all the posts and interest guys. OBN that is a looker for sure. You should take that down to Barber one year(if you haven't already).
I am spending the day tomorrow with the old girl weather permitting. I will pop some snaps and post tomorrow eve.

jayel

just don't tell them as long as it works, they won't care

YamahaRick · Full Member Joined: Dec 01, 2008 Posts: 85

Lol, you are probably right about that jayel. I was gonna tuck it under the battery box anyway...outta sight outta mind

What Happened to 650rider.com?

Yamaha xs650