18/30 gearing

nj1639 · Posted: March 1, 2009, 11:15 am Post subject: 18/30 gearing

Took about 4 easy hours yesterday, smoke breaks, coffee breaks, neighbor breaks, to change out the gearing. Easy-peasy.Took it for a short spin, too cold to go too far.
Looks like 1st gear will now last up to where 2nd would have been used and the same with 2nd where 3rd would have been used. Pulls off from a stop about the same as before, no noticeable difference there.
I did heat the rear sprocket to cherry red in the coals of the woodstove and dropped it in a pan of cold water per xsjohn's suggestion.Painted and set to dry above the stove. Should I have done the front also? We'll see.
My 17T front sprocket was getting hooked teeth so that change was needed anyway.
Cut 2 links out of the chain, probably the hardest part of the whole improvement. As mentioned in previous posts, I did notice that with the 18T you will be closer to the gear shift rod and the clutch rod but if the chain is tight you'll clear both fine. The shift shield does have to go though. Also watch the alternator wiring, I secured it away from the chain a little better than stock with a tie wrap, something I'll have to watch in a maintenance schedule.
Checked the rear brake shoes while the tire was off. Still good to go.
The lock tabs for the rear sprocket bolts are a bear to bend. You get the bolts down tight and then you can't get under the tab edge to fold it up. I finally got it but what a pain, maybe should have re-used the originals instead of new. Maybe a slight variation in the thickness there.
Well, now for some good riding weather.

jayel · Posted: March 1, 2009, 11:24 am Post subject: Re: 18/30 gearing

should have put on a new chain, ......a worn chain will eat those sprockets and if the old front sprocket was hooked over the chain was worn....

xsjohn · Posted: March 1, 2009, 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: 18/30 gearing

Front sprocket are all ready hardened.....May have to come off the shift shaft a bit if the chain clicks on it.........a new chain like jayel said....

You think your geared high ....I'm at 18/29 with a 140 sized tire......and a bit lowered compression.........like a car now.......biggest mistake people make with real tall gears is trying to rev first when taking off..only have to do that when starting on a steep incline.....best to roll it off at low rpm till the engine speed matches your mph then roll the throtttle on......after a while it all takes an instant and you don't notice it...and you can get going quick in 1-2-3 too...bet mine will go 55-60 in third really twisting it....4th is wonderful now.....5th being an overdrive for highway speeds....got 65 thousand on my first clutch.....

Still find myself lifting the shifter in 5th on the express once in a while when I am in a daze.....all these gears are really not for the heavy rider though...basically 4th is like what 5th used to be....

xsjohn

nj1639 · Posted: March 1, 2009, 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: 18/30 gearing

jayel wrote:

should have put on a new chain, ......a worn chain will eat those sprockets and if the old front sprocket was hooked over the chain was worn....

Gotcha, thanks.

erb224 · Posted: March 10, 2009, 12:09 am Post subject: Re: 18/30 gearing

What exactly did you buy from Mikes?

Both sprockets, new chain and...? I've got a little oil leak, so I'm thinking I should buy a countershaft oil seal as well (haven't taken the cover off, but I'm positive it's coming from there)... Did you buy a locktab for the front sprocket?

nj1639 · Posted: March 10, 2009, 6:28 am Post subject: Re: 18/30 gearing

Front and rear sprockets, locktabs for the rear and the large socket for the front sprocket nut.
Chain was relativly new from the po and the front locktab was re-usable. Didn't need the socket for the front sprocket(???), it turned freely when I turned down the tab edge but I put it back on tight with the socket. The front tab, once the sprocket nut is tightened, has 6 potential places to choose from to lock the nut in, I have 4 left to choose from now.
When placing the rear tabs on, put the cut edge facing out, will give you a bit more of a purchase to bend up to lock the bolt in, you'll see what I mean there.
I do have a bit of a leak from the clutch pushrod seal and I have a replacement but I don't use a lot of oil, automatic chain oiler? I will change it out one of these days and also do the xsjohn bevel or cup at the end of the rod(s).
Keep in mind that I'm a dirt floor mechanic descended from backwoods South Jersey Pineys and considered 'a cheap S.O.B.' by my bike mentor. Ha!

jayel · Posted: March 10, 2009, 9:04 am Post subject: Re: 18/30 gearing

nj1639 wrote:

Didn't need the socket for the front sprocket(???), it turned freely when I turned down the tab edge but I put it back on tight with the socket...... Keep in mind that I'm a dirt floor mechanic descended from backwoods South Jersey Pineys and considered 'a cheap S.O.B.' by my bike mentor. Ha!

quite a heritage there nj .... keep in mind that sprocket nut does have to be tight or it will sling oil

erb224 · Posted: March 10, 2009, 9:27 am Post subject: Re: 18/30 gearing

Thanks for the info nj.

y oil leak is also small, but after some time it gets oil all over the rim. Then I feel like I need to clean it and I hate cleaning.

I'm a cheap SOB too, you're not alone. I paid $200 for my bike and I've only put $150 in it, most of that was tires. This upgrade looks like it will take another $150.

xsjohn · Posted: March 10, 2009, 10:15 am Post subject: Re: 18/30 gearing

Good idea to clean the sprocket nut and shaft threads well with brake cleaner and use loctite BLUE on the threads along with the nut retainer....then it won't jiggle loose a bit and leak...........

xsjohn

yamaman · Posted: March 10, 2009, 10:19 am Post subject: Re: 18/30 gearing

I know I've read on here many times of people having leaks there and fixed them by just tightening. But if they are tightened properly and the tabs folded over right, would Loctite help? Shouldn't move anyway should it?

jayel · Posted: March 10, 2009, 10:38 am Post subject: Re: 18/30 gearing

lock-tite couldn't hurt and might help, I also put a thick grease on and in that bushing most of it squeezes out but it doesn't give the oil a path to follow

xsjohn · Posted: March 10, 2009, 10:41 am Post subject: Re: 18/30 gearing

"""""Shouldn't move anyway should it?"""""".......Why find out .............

Barakastan....... Laughing

......would be even funnier if it wasn't fixing to happen........ Shocked

Pure-Pork .......23..They call it PMS because Mad Cow Disease was already taken.. Laughing

--------------------------------
And 18/30 is a good start for the begging of a cruiser.......carbs of course but the timing will play against a slick cruise......I found on my electronic that about 1/8 of an inch retard from the F mark at 1200 is worth exploring.....exact F mark advance will make them cranky at lower cruise rpms ...Ask Michael Morris if you don't believe me.........

xsjohn

xs1961 · Posted: March 17, 2009, 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: 18/30 gearing

I can back-up what John says re. retardation..All my bikes have Boyers fitted & the all run best slightly retarded..
(try saying this in XS560Garage & they'll flip...lol)

xsjohn · Posted: March 17, 2009, 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: 18/30 gearing

We are just retarded on this site as I've heard........ ignorance is bliss... Cool

xsjohn

dps-rider · Full Member Joined: Aug 25, 2007 Posts: 100

I think today's gas may play a role with the timing issues. I've had this bike ('78 Special) since new and when good high test was available, it ran noticeably better with the timing at or just advanced from the full advance mark. That was with stock gearing though, which probably makes a difference as well.

xsjohn · Posted: March 17, 2009, 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: 18/30 gearing

Yea....with taller gearing you aren't so buzzed out and want it to act right at 2500 like it can........god only knows that 8-1 made that even way better too........and still get to the mountains and back in the same amount of time ....less ragged too....but I am easily shaken.... Laughing

.

xsjohn

HndaTch627 · Posted: March 18, 2009, 3:02 am Post subject: Re: 18/30 gearing

so would this gear combination be good for a bike that will see 65-75mph cruise speeds regularlly? I just took the bike on the highway tonight and 4000 RPM @ 60mph is a bit excessive .

The bike has plenty of torque so i have no idea why they geared these bikes so short.

Oh one more question, what method do you guys use to align the rear tire after removing it?

xs1961 · Posted: March 18, 2009, 4:07 am Post subject: Re: 18/30 gearing

Yep, you'll love it..Mine will sit at 70mph all day at 3600 on 18/30 gearing

HndaTch627 · Posted: March 18, 2009, 5:34 am Post subject: Re: 18/30 gearing

xs1961 wrote:

Yep, you'll love it..Mine will sit at 70mph all day at 3600 on 18/30 gearing

now that's the kind of gearing i am looking for.

How many links need to be removed from the chain? 2?

indyjay · Full Member Joined: Feb 07, 2008 Posts: 67

Well, after reading this thread, I think I'm going to try the spark retard and put my 18T back on for the 18/30 combo.

Your very inspiring, XSJohn! Smile

nj1639 · Posted: March 18, 2009, 6:30 am Post subject: Re: 18/30 gearing

xs1961 wrote:

Yep, you'll love it..Mine will sit at 70mph all day at 3600 on 18/30 gearing

y speedometer or tach has got to be off. Better watch me arse.
Duh! The light just came on! I'm running a 16" rear tire, could be the difference.
I removed 2 chain links from a stock length '83 special, best to put the chain on with the tire as far forward as you can and see what you have to take out.

dps-rider · Full Member Joined: Aug 25, 2007 Posts: 100

xsjohn, Makes me wonder if recurving the spark advance wouldn't be a really good solution for those that can do it. Last I knew you had stock solid state ignition so you can't try it. I have Boyers so I can't try it either.

indyjay · Full Member Joined: Feb 07, 2008 Posts: 67

xsjohn,

We all value your wisdom and expertise around here, that's for sure. Smile

With that being said, could you guide us as to the procedure to do the timing retard? Mine is an '80 with electronic ignition. I thought I read in a post a while back about having to file off the backing plate rivets or something.

Thanks!

Jay

xsjohn · Posted: March 18, 2009, 8:06 am Post subject: Re: 18/30 gearing

If I had the stock advance with springs I would definately have played with the springs........but the electronic on mine will kick like a mule when set on the F mark so I believe a bit of retard is correct.......and to me it runs better especially at cruise.......have played with it for 10 years till I found the sweet spot ......didn't really get truly sweet till I went to 8-1 last year.......I push it forward till it gets cranky at 2000-2500 and then back it off just a hair.......about 1/8" retard or in that area......

How did the shaving the 10-1 piston tops go.......thought that was a good idea but I would have gone all the way ...in your case it would have been about 8.3-1.....but then again I'm just an ole fart that got tired of the clanky...............

xsjohn

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