Electric XS ?

killer · Posted: May 25, 2008, 7:33 am Post subject: Electric XS ?

Here's the situation. (Which will probably get me all kinds of ridicule.) I've put 20 thousand miles on my XS since the major engine rebuild at 11 thousand. Now the engine is starting to make funny noises. The noise is a scraping one, so I figure its probably starting to wear the cam chain guide (again) ... since I found rubber plastic pieces in the strainer ... That or a bearing somewhere.

The XS has always been reliable and I've always liked the way it looks and handles. Its been my commuter bike for my 30 mile round trip for the last 9 years. Otherwise a perfect machine other than a few shaft seal oil leaks. Plus I've tweaked it to get 55mpg.

So here's the question. Do I...

A. Fix my current engine ?
(won't know what's wrong till I tear it open) Will need new headgasket, jug gasket, camchain, (might as well do the chain guide, driveshaft seal, and who knows what else. The one piston looks like it took a few detonations, so probably new pistons.

B. Get a new lower mileage engine ?
(This is a potential pitfall as I could end up with something worse than what I have.)

C. Do something totally radical and chuck the engine in favor of an electric motor?

Fortunately, I work for a company who makes lead-acid batteries. I can get them at employee discount, which is significant. If my commute is only 30 miles, I should be able to complete the journey on one charge, as long as I incorporate regenerative braking. Will certainly be able to complete half the journey, charge up and get home. I've seen some demonstrations of some rather good electric conversions, so I'm tempted.
www.coolfuelroadtrip.com shows an XS called their "bush motorcycle". No gearbox, but with a 5:1 final drive ratio, and 50mph tops. All of this works for me, I'm traveling back roads, so I never exceed 45mph anyway. I'm an electrical engineer, so the conversion isn't beyond my capabilities.
www.cloudelectric.com/...etail/1376
The batteries have a warranty for 3 years, the cost of the batteries (with my awesome discount) in this time period is 1/3 the investment in gasoline at current prices.

What I'm talking about is totally against oldschool cycling, but I'm trying to look forward. I'm not going to modify anything on my XS that can't be reversed if it turns out my experiment doesn't go as planned.

I'm not some kind of tree huggin' hippy. Gasoline is fine with me. (Its not like a don't own other motorcycles and gas guzzling sports cars)
Its partly an engineering challenge to see if I can do it. You only live once to create what you dream up. If I regret not trying is that really bad? I know I can fix the engine, but can I do something different?

I'll try not to get on my gasoline price rant, but something has to be done. If we don't stand up up for something, we'll fall for anything.
Am I willing to make a statement and some gas at the same time, so the rest of us can keep riding the way nature intended... with gasoline. mmmmm?

royfisk · Posted: May 25, 2008, 9:03 am Post subject: Re: Electric XS ?

Eric sounds like a cool project. But maybe you could find a Donner bike ready for the bone yard cheaply to do your conversion and redo old crustworthy for more use?

Retiredgentleman · Posted: May 25, 2008, 11:45 am Post subject: Re: Electric XS ?

killer; I vote for the electric conversion, perhaps with a doner bike as roy talked about. Oil is a depleting resource and Hybrid cars and pure electric vehicles is only going to get bigger. How about Lithium Ion batteries or are they just too pricy. It would certainly be a real challenge............you would have to find ways to decrease weight as much as possible. Yes, for sure you will receive criticism, maybe even name calling, but would be a fun project.

xsjohn · Posted: May 25, 2008, 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Electric XS ?

Why not......and then you could carry your dog on your back.......in my case it would be a cat.....a black one at that....xsjohn

pumps · Posted: May 25, 2008, 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: Electric XS ?

Just my two cents. I say rebuild the old motor. At least you'll know what you have. AND do the electric one if you can afford to and have the space.. Find another old bike to do it to. Doesn't even have to be an XS does it? That would broaden your opportunities to get a deal on the cheap. If you think you are up to it I believe it would be an interesting challenge. I would think that there are people out there on the net with the knowledge they might pass on to you and it would be a great way to meet some new folks! Just be sure to document it with lots of pictures and text. Even if you have trouble I for one would like to hear about it. My commute is 13 miles one way and I would love to do something like that.

Barbara · Posted: May 25, 2008, 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: Electric XS ?

Hi Guys,

I'm with Pumps on this one: rebuild the XS, and find a lightweight donor rolling frame. Y'know what might be fun, although finding a donor bike might be a trick: using a Norton or other pre-unit construction, so you could keep a gearbox if you want one. People put Triumph engines in Norton frames--why not a big ol' electric motor and battery pack?

But with the XS, I'd opt for "keeping the devil you know". If you used the XS for an electric experiment and it doesn't work, you have to deal with the engine anyway, right?

Now---who has built a steam-powered bike? Fire it with vodka or something, and just fill up the water every 100 miles or so.....

Oh, and just my personal addiction: you could put a mondo-huge battery pack in a sidecar!

Interesting problem.....

royfisk · Posted: May 25, 2008, 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: Electric XS ?

Barbara wrote:

Hi Guys,

I'm with Pumps on this one: rebuild the XS, and find a lightweight donor rolling frame. Y'know what might be fun, although finding a donor bike might be a trick: using a Norton or other pre-unit construction, so you could keep a gearbox if you want one. People put Triumph engines in Norton frames--why not a big ol' electric motor and battery pack?

But with the XS, I'd opt for "keeping the devil you know". If you used the XS for an electric experiment and it doesn't work, you have to deal with the engine anyway, right?

Now---who has built a steam-powered bike? Fire it with vodka or something, and just fill up the water every 100 miles or so.....

Oh, and just my personal addiction: you could put a mondo-huge battery pack in a sidecar!

Interesting problem.....

xsleo · Posted: May 26, 2008, 4:13 am Post subject: Re: Electric XS ?

i was reading about this fellow that went clear across the country and only used alternative fueled vehicles. one that he rode was an old kawasaki that was electric. the motor was tucked up high up under seat. direct drive, and three batteries in where the engine and tranny were. i'll see if i can find the story. i think it was in poplar mechanics. it didn't look too bad. said it rode just fine.

killer · Posted: May 28, 2008, 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: Electric XS ?

Thanks for your thoughts guys.

Well the engine teardown has started. Looks like nothing more than a cam chain guide being chewed apart. I caught it pretty early, not much aluminum in the sump screen yet. The pistons look REALLY ugly though... heck it needed torn down, the headgasket was nearly gone. All new gaskets and seals and it will be back on the road. Maybe need to check out those valve guides after seeing that much crud on the pistons.

I guess I'm not going to convert my beloved XS650 to electric. I'll just fix it again and keep on riding. That's not to say I won't be on the lookout for a lighter framed rice rocket to convert someday. The XS frame is too beefy for a good electric conversion, all my calculations say that I'll be left alongside the road with dead batteries on the return trip.

Protrucker · Posted: June 14, 2008, 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Electric XS ?

Like the others have said, I would fix the XS motor, but still look into building an electric conversion on another frame/bike.

Did you give any thought to using "ultra capacitors" technology & "fast energy" with your electric conversion? That would allow better use of your batteries & good acceleration also. Check these out for some ideas:

www.afstrinity.com/

www.youtube.com/watch?v=w22jz6r06t8

What Happened to 650rider.com?

Yamaha xs650