Tic tic tic noise?

TheDude · Posted: May 12, 2008, 6:52 pm Post subject: Tic tic tic noise?

Unfortunately, I have never ridden an XS untill now, so I don't have a baseline for comparison. I got the bike fired up after ten years of sitting, and it runs pretty good as far as I can tell. But, It's making a tic tic tic noise. It's louder when cold, but it doesn't go away. I adjusted the timing and the valve clearance, and that didn't affect it.
Is this normal? Could it be that oil isn't getting where it needs to? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Also, it's leaking oil from the head gasket rather severely. I don't know if that is relevant, but I will check the head torque as soon as it cools off.

Thanks,
Jerry

jayel · Posted: May 12, 2008, 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Tic tic tic noise?

use a long screwdriver hold the handle up to your cheekbone? right in front of your ear, put the tip on various points of the engine, you should be able to narrow down the location of the noise, works just like a mechanics stethoscope

XduncanX · Posted: May 14, 2008, 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Tic tic tic noise?

I had a similar problem a lil while ago and I think it was 5twins who had the answer. Told me to adjust my cam chain tension. After that, the noise has yet to return.

TheDude · Posted: May 14, 2008, 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Tic tic tic noise?

I am hopeing that will be the ticket. The cam chain is the one thing i have yet to adjust. I am still unsure how to adjust it though. The manual does't say much.

XduncanX · Posted: May 14, 2008, 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: Tic tic tic noise?

If its the same as a '75, once you take off the cover its pretty simple. Theres a lock bolt and the actual adjuster bolt, and in the center of that theres a little piston that moves when you turn the engine. It is supposed to be flush with the adjuster bolt at the end of its outstroke, so you just adjust as such.

TheDude · Posted: May 18, 2008, 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Tic tic tic noise?

Well..... I checked the adjustment on my cam chain, and It was correct. I rechecked the valve clearance and tightened them to the point where the feeler gauges drag at .006" for exhaust and .004" on intake.

The Tic tic tic sound is worse if anything.

xsleo · Posted: May 18, 2008, 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Tic tic tic noise?

being all mechanical valve train getting a little tic tic from then is normal. feeling a slight drag is about right. if when you get to much drag you can actually see the valve stem move when you pull the feeler gauge out. if so it's a little tight. getting a valve set loose, you get more noise and a little less lift on valve. as you tighten the adjustment the noise will lessen as you elimanate more of the freeplay in the vavle train. when it's right the noise is minimal. get to tight and the valve won't close completely. this lets compression pressure to blow by valves. this will cause poor running. and the exhaust valve to burn. on the cam chain i have found that to get the best adjustment. pull off adjuster cover. start engine, watch the plunger, it wil move in and out, with proper adjustment the plunger will move out to flush then back in. if it don't come flush, it needs to be tighter. if it comes past flush, it needs to be looser. it moves in and out because the chain has tight and loose places.

TheDude · Posted: May 19, 2008, 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: Tic tic tic noise?

Thanks xsleo,
per the advice from XSJohn on another post I found, I tightened the intake valves to a loose .003". This helped a little.
I then listened with a piece of air hose (make shift stethoscope) and found the noise is coming from the exhaust valve are. The noise is loudest on the fins right under the exhaust valve tappet cover. so I tightened the exhaust valves to a loose .005", but no change in sound.
I fugure a little noise is normal, but it seems really loud still. Could it be a problem with the lubrication?

cpotts454 · Posted: May 19, 2008, 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: Tic tic tic noise?

My ticking like that I found out that I wasnt getting any oil to the top end. Pull a tappet cover and turn the motor over with a drill. Pull the plugs to make it easier to hold on to the drill. With a flash light make sure oil is coming from the jets in the middle down on to the cam.

wayalive · Posted: May 19, 2008, 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: Tic tic tic noise?

I've got some seemingly too loud ticking also, on an 82 SJ. Will be checking out the oiling per test above. What did you do to resolve your top end oiling problem, cpotts454? Is it just a matter of removing and cleaning the external oil tube setup?

Thanks.

TheDude · Posted: May 20, 2008, 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: Tic tic tic noise?

Assuming that I have a lubrication problem, does anyone have a remedy short of a rebuild?
Are there any oil additives?
I am suspicious that something may be plugged. When I changed the oil, there was 3/4" of sludge on the drain plugs.

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

TheDude -- What might help isolate the problem is to open both exhaust valve covers and use a mechanic's oil-can to squirt engine oil (whatever kind you're using) directly on the valve stems, where the rocker beats on 'em. Might squirt a little on the rocker shafts, too. See if you can identify the source of the problem by making it go away or change pitch or something.

I've never tried it myself, but it seems like a good idea to me. Messy, though, that's for sure. But it shouldn't be too bad if you don't do it for more than a minute or two.

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

Back in the seventies when I was working on overhead cam Datsuns, we had ticking noises from the valve trains that was caused by worn cam followers. Let's see if I can help you draw a picture here --

Take a pencil and a sheet of white paper. In the middle of the white paper, draw a rectangle one inch high and two inches long. Think of that rectangle as the polished surface of the cam follower, where the cam actually rubs against it.

Now, at the center of the top edge of the rectangle, draw a line straight across the rectangle that cuts it into two 1" x 1" squares. That line represents the point on the wear surface where the tip of the cam lobe is at when the valve is fully open.

In reality, that line might be as much as an eighth of an inch wide. It is an actual wear pattern, where the curved surface of the cam follower has been beat flat by the cam's hardface. Every time the tip of the cam comes gliding across the polished wear surface of the cam follower, when it hits that flat place, whoever has his head under the hood hears a tiny TICK.

Get eight cam followers worn in exactly that same way, you got quite a racket. There's no way to adjust it out. You have to R&R the cam followers because, if you leave them in place, the wear will eventually take the hardface off the cam.

I don't know if I've drawn you a picture you can understand. I don't know if these 650 engines ever have a problem like that. But the problem was common in 1970s production Datsun pickups, Datsun 310 and 510 models and even in the 240 & 260 Zs. So you might look for scars on the hardface of your cam followers. And I'm not talking about wear you can necessarily feel or measure. I'm talking about a wearline that's plainly visible. If you can see it, you got a problem.

TheDude · Posted: May 20, 2008, 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Tic tic tic noise?

Jimmy, in your first post, were you suggesting I run the motor with the tappet covers off?

Also, to check the wear pattern, I'm guessing I will have to remove the engine. Correct?

Thanks for the tips

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

Yes. I was suggesting that you run the engine with the VALVE covers off (there are no tappets in your engine). I figure you could minimize the oil spillage by wadding up a piece of an old towel and use that to dam up the runoff -- without actually plugging the access port.

About checking the wear pattern -- I guess I hadn't thought that out. On Datsuns we could pull the cam followers without pulling the cam or the head. They weren't shaft-mounted like the cam followers on these things. You could pop 'em out with a screwdriver or a pry-bar.

So I guess you must decide if it's worth the work to check those cam followers or if you'll keep looking for the answer elsewhere. You've already checked your timing-chain adjustment, I know. Are the timing-chain tensioners in good shape? The plastic linings intact?

Then there's another option I've used several times in the past -- Button the damned thing up and run it till it breaks. Then you'll know for certain what that stupid noise was. Cool

jimmythetrucker

TheDude · Posted: June 15, 2008, 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: Tic tic tic noise?

Problem Solved!!!
While placing an order with Michael at 650 Central, I asked him about the Tic, Tic, Tic noise. He suggested the cam chain tensioner damper may have been worn out thus trowing out the adjustment of the cam chain tension.
I purchased the $7 rubber coated washer, spent 10 min. installing it, and no tic, tic, tic noise.
That Michael really knows his stuff!!!

weekendrider · Posted: June 15, 2008, 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Tic tic tic noise?

That's great Dude. It's hard to beat MMM when it comes to sincere, concerned customer service. Did you get your pack of M&M's?

NorwegianXS · Posted: June 15, 2008, 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: Tic tic tic noise?

TheDude wrote:

Problem Solved!!!
While placing an order with Michael at 650 Central, I asked him about the Tic, Tic, Tic noise. He suggested the cam chain tensioner damper may have been worn out thus trowing out the adjustment of the cam chain tension.
I purchased the $7 rubber coated washer, spent 10 min. installing it, and no tic, tic, tic noise.
That Michael really knows his stuff!!!

What is the part number? Question

This one? (Damper - Cam Chain Tensioner rod to spring OEM Ref.# 2H0-12232-00)

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

Thanks, Dude -- that's good to know.

TheDude · Posted: June 15, 2008, 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: Tic tic tic noise?

NorwegianXS, The part number is MXS18-0873 (Tensioner Rod Damper).

weekendrider, I did get the m&ms. that was a nice touch

Jake68 · 650Rider Supporter Joined: Mar 23, 2007 Posts: 841

Just wanted to add. Before I tore my engine apart and made all the inherant mistakes made by a 2 stroke guy out of his depth :-)...

What I discovered was that the damper washer makes a good difference on the older engine. Better on a new one (recently rebuilt)..BUT..a front guide..makes it sound like NEW!..

I dont know for sure, but I think that these bikes didnt come with that washer and they were "born" quiet Smile

xs1961 · Posted: June 21, 2008, 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: Tic tic tic noise?

Yep, my first new XS was in march '78 , it didnt 'tick' until it was 5 years old.. sold it before I could be arsed to solve it..Only had two others that 'ticked' since & I changed the guides & fitted homemade 'damper washers' (made from a slce of plastic pipe) not sure which 'cured' the noise..

nj1639 · Posted: June 22, 2008, 12:19 am Post subject: Re: Tic tic tic noise?

xs1961 wrote:

Yep, my first new XS was in march '78 , it didnt 'tick' until it was 5 years old.. sold it before I could be arsed to solve it..Only had two others that 'ticked' since & I changed the guides & fitted homemade 'damper washers' (made from a slce of plastic pipe) not sure which 'cured' the noise..

Sure would like to know where that damper washer is supposed to go.

xs1961 · Posted: June 22, 2008, 3:49 am Post subject: Re: Tic tic tic noise?

between the plunger & spring.. anyone out there have a photo?

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