Need help with very difficult start.

J741

O.K. I just bought a used Yamaha XS1 650 which is registered as a 1970 model. (How can I verify what year it really is?)

Now, this does not have an electic start (can one be added?) and it takes me a VERY long time of exhausting attemts at kick-starting before the bike will start. Then it runs a little bit rough and sounds like it may die at any moment until it's been running for about 2 minutes, after which it runs just fine.

I've had this bike about 2 weeks now, and I like how it rides (although it seems a bit bouncy at times), but the difficult starting is really driving me nuts. Sometimes it can take me half an hour (of 5 minutes on, 5 minute off) of kicking to get the damn thing started. It's just not right.

Can anyone tell me what to check or adjust to improve the starting situation?

Thanks.
- James.

P.S. This bike had been sitting idle for over a year, and now has a brand new battery installed because the old one was toast. I'm thinking of replacing the oil with some fresh stuff, and maybe installing new spark plugs, but I'm no mechanic so I want to know what else to check or have checked.

grizld1

You can't install an electric starter in your engine, James. There's no port in the lower crank case half for it.

A number of things could cause starting problems. What do the plugs look like? What kind of shape are the air cleaners in? You may have varnished pilot jets in the carbs; this usually happens when bikes sit with undrained carbs. You may also have a little corrosion on the ignition points. Fresh oil is a must-have. Use motorcycle oil; the automotive stuff will make your clutch slip.

J741

O.K. So electric start option. I'll deal with it.

Just bought some new spark plugs and oil. When I took out the old plugs I notice that they were both very black an thick. Definitely needed changing. However, the one from the left side was wet, seemingly with oil, while the one from the right side was dry. Is this an indication of a bigger problem? It does always lean to the left side due to the kickstand (I don't have a center stand).

As for the oil, I was not able to get either of the drain plugs open. I used the biggest crescent wrench that I have, but just was not able to turn either of the drain plugs. I'm going to look for a big pipe or something I can use to add leverage to my wrench, but don't have anything yet. I don't want to try starting the bike again until I've done the oil change, even with the new plugs.

- James.

grizld1

A few of things, James. You need to turn off the fuel every time you shut down. If your plugs are oil-fouled, it could well be an indication that it needs top-end work; but sometimes when a bike that's been sitting is returned to service it takes a little time for the rings to free up, so let's not assume anything just yet. Check your air filters.

J741

O.K. I still haven't been able to get the damned oil drain plugs open yet. I guess I'll need to take it to someone with better tools.

However, I decided to try and start it with the new spark plugs in it, even without a change of oil, and it only took 2 kicks. This is great!

And I did look at the air filters, and they are very thick, so I think I'll change those too.

Thanks for your feedback 'grizld1', I really appreciate it.

- James.

J741

Even more attempts, but still unabel to loosen the oil drain plugs.

However, now that I have put in new spark plugs, it starts much easier, but won't run for more than about a minute before it dies. Using the throttle will also kill it. So now it's unuseable.

Anyone know why this would happen?

- James.

grizld1

Your plugs were black. That indicates a very rich mixture. That happens when air filters clog. As they get dirty the dirt collects more dirt, like a small clog in a drain building up to total blockage. I'm guessing your fresh plugs are now black.

J741

O.K. So I looked at the new plugs, and they are black at the tip (which is to be expected), but the rest appears no different. This doesn't surprise me as it only ran for a total of about 3 minutes with the new plugs.

So I cleaned the air filters (K&N universal filters), and a massive ammount of crap came out of them (I used the K&N air filter cleaning kit, with the air filter oil),

Then I decided to remove, dissassemble, and inspect the carbs. What I found was a blocked overflow drain on the left carb, and the Jet Needle on both carbs was set to the richest fuel-air setting possible. I then set the Jet Needle to the mid-range setting, and set the externally accessible Pillot Mixture screw to one turn out. After starting the bike, I then set the idle for each carb, and balanced the butterfly's.

Now it starts AND runs well. No more stutter, no more death.

Tomorrow, I will take her for a ride and see if the mid-range and top-end are smooth or not.

- James.

P.S. Anyone got any tricks for removing stubborn oil drain plugs? I've tried a 25" breaker bar with a shallow 27mm socket, but I still can't get the damned plugs to move.

grizld1

Congrats, James! Sometimes it's more than one thing that's causing a problem with an old bike. Now--the K&N filters are less restrictive than stock, which leans the fuel mix (as do performance exhausts), so the jetting has to be richened to compensate. K&N recommends leaving the needle where you put it, in the stock position, on diaphragm carbs and making adjustments with main and pilot jets (1 step up on pilots for 3 on mains). Check your main jet size, and run a plug chop. My '77, with 2-to-2 Mac exhausts and K&N filters, had to be stepped up 11 sizes (from 122.5 to 150) on the mains, and 2 sizes on the pilots. My cammed and ported engine, currently sitting in a project frame, takes a much greater increase. If K&N's are your only breathing mod., I'm guessing you'll go up 3 to 4 sizes over stock on the mains.

Sounds like some yo-yo put your drain plugs in with air impaction. Try taking the scoot to any repair shop, automotive or bike, and ask them what they'd take to pop the plugs loose with air impact and hand-snug 'em for you so you can take it home and change the oil.

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