Top End Oil Cooler

xsjohn · Posted: April 28, 2007, 5:35 pm Post subject: Top End Oil Cooler

Adding the cooler drops the head temps and actually cools the lower end….Before the cooler going anywhere in the summer even 30 or 40 miles the engine would start sounding like hell after it got fully warmed up..…Now even the hot clattering startups are gone…………Filter is a good thing too..

I opened the original restrictor so the cooler would see the same pressure as the main oil galley.....Then meter it with the correct size restrictor as close to the top end as reasonable.....Fastest way to get cool oil for hot starts.......From .116 to .125 compensates for the extra length and gravity to keep the flow as same as the stock flow......

Remember the head temps will be down say 15 degrees but the cylinders can still get hot......Be sure of your mixtures if you plan to run hard like the expressway.....Check with infrared thermometer and play with mixtures to try to keep the cylinders below 250 degrees in hot weather....

John Underwood

INXS650 · 650Rider Supporter Joined: Mar 22, 2007 Posts: 645

What bike or which oil cooler did you use? That was hopefully going to be the next project. Where in North Carolina are you from?

xsjohn · Last edited by xsjohn on May 21, 2007, 4:23 am; edited 4 times in total

I'm south west of Winston-Salem.

XS650 used a xs850 cooler. XS750-XS850-XS1100 are the same... Works better that I thought it would and is quite simple.....Are you in NC.....

Here is the xs cooler with screen and cover for below 70 degrees.....It is still working but has been cut back for colder weather...
Used walmart letter holder (stationary dept) for the screen and drum plastic covering for the cover...comes in a zillion colors..had some black..

John

INXS650 · 650Rider Supporter Joined: Mar 22, 2007 Posts: 645

Yeah, I am from Greenville. Will look at the posts to see how you did it. thanks.

xsjohn · Posted: April 29, 2007, 7:57 am Post subject: Re: Last Cooling Rant.......

INX650: Gets pretty hot there too.... We are looking at 88 degrees here in NC on tuesday.... Better to try to keep it cool than taking it apart.....

John Underwood

camoweasel · Full Member Joined: Sep 14, 2006 Posts: 50

John, Today I went for a ride on the interstate at speeds between 80-100 mph because for some reason traffic was flowing really fast. To be honest my speedo is off by about 10 mph, but I was cruisning around 5-5500 rpms today in 5th gear on the interstate with stock gearing. After about 15 minutes i pulled off at my exit and slowed down to to make a right hand turn. Upon acceleration I noticed that my engine was pinging and knocking for about 10 minutes afterwards due to how hot my engine was. I presume that these engines get hot enough to the point where they can start pinging due to how hot they are. When I bought the bike it has an oil cooler already installed in the the metal liner running between the bottom end and top end. Reguardless I guess that at these speeds the motor was still be to hot for any conventional oil to handle. All though it felt good crusing at speeds of 80 mph, i guess my engine didn't like being pushed at 5500 rpms in fifth gear. Thus just shows how hot these engines can really get to be.

xsjohn · Posted: May 8, 2007, 11:18 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Oil Cooler

I don't think complete systems cool the top end oil like the cooler I designed for the XS's because the oil is moving through the cooler to quickly and is also being heated up in the main oil galley.. My cooler runs at 135 degrees at 70 on a 90 degree day... I don't drive as fast as you described but at 70-75 my head will be 225-230 degrees on a 90 degree day..Lower end runs at 180 degrees and the oil filter is 150 degrees... Bet you were running 275 degrees or more head temp and the cylinders were seeing 300 or more. It can fry soon if you continue doing that...Mine used to heat like that too....Your carbs may be to lean also especially if they are the newer 34s. I have beaten this subject until I feel like no one is listening.......A 20 dollar lazer thermometer and some carb main needle dicking with will save a big ugly hassel and actually make these things run quite well.......I raised my needles until I found what was too much then I set them where they wanted to be....Not hard.....Just raising the mj is not the real answer for tuning them properly...Gearing would be another issue for me...

Who ever designed the cooler on you bike may have also built in some restriction....Just guessing....But if true that would be not good....Are the plugs real white during these speed sessions....It is hard toget good plug readings on short runs....What mj....I setteled on a 135 with stock type air boxes and stock exhaust......If carbs are set for just plunking around they can get lean when put to real work....The hotter the ambient temp the more critical tuning is......I always set my carbs a tad on the rich side because of summer and sometimes run a hotter plug in the winter...I have to cover the front of the oil cooler at 70 degrees and below....

The only main problem besides fouled plugs if you run these real rich is cylinder wash....This can take out the top end too if just rich tuning is used to keep the head temps way down where they belong....Hence the top end cooler............

John Underwood

Finn51 · Full Member Joined: Apr 25, 2007 Posts: 59

I thought Johns idea was pretty good so had a shot doing my own. Found a new, still in box Derale cooler, with slip on hose ends. Couldn't mount it low because of my 2 into 1 pipe, so stuck it up fairly high, and had to use the braided line, regular oil hose tended to kink. The 1/8 restriction is in the fitting going into the T block. The way it's located it doesn't drain back and seems to work fine. I don't have any numbers, but John seems to have all that figured and posted here.

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xs1961 · Posted: May 14, 2007, 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Oil Cooler

Whats the flow-rate through the cooler like John?

xsjohn · Posted: May 14, 2007, 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Oil Cooler

xs1961:.....Same as it was stock.....I have really been watching everything to make sure things are ok.......Maybe a third of a gallon a minute at 3200 rpm...Sure has made mine pull the tall gears 18/29. Seems like you can go on forever and it just stays the same....Little longer warmup and I have been covering the front of mine below 75 degrees if I am staying out of traffic....

Not bragging but mine works 3 times a good as I ever thought it would...I can't get over how it cools the lower end also. Spin on 145 degrees top cooler 130 degrees. It was 75 degrees today with the front covered. When the front is covered it still performs better than I thought it ever would. ...Shouldn't run the engine to cold though...seems like 225 degrees head temp is ideal for these things.....Not hard to figure...If you feel like wearing a light jacket then the front should be covered....That easy....I don't bother draining it when I change oil.....Really cold weather may build a total cover like the do the Harleys...

Engine and top end really runs quieter and smoother......

Lazer tuning helps a bunch too......

John Underwood

xs1961 · Posted: May 14, 2007, 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Oil Cooler

Ok ,you've convinced me..I've found a few busted oil-pipes so I'm gonna rig one up this weekend...
Whats 'lazer tuning'? some kind of US terminoligy for our timing by strobe?

xsjohn · Posted: May 14, 2007, 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Oil Cooler

xs1961:.....
Using a lazer thermometer you can ballance the cylinders and or find one lean one or one rich one. ...Getting both cylinders running correctly and the same. Even though the plugs look somewhat the same theycould be quite different in temps and pressure.

www.650rider.com/Forum...=1529.html

John Underwood

xsjohn · Posted: May 16, 2007, 11:08 am Post subject: Re: Top End Oil Cooler

Fin51: Nice job...Good Idea to use other fittings for those who don't want to cut the oil tube..Lowes is a neat place for all kinds of that fitting stuff....What did you use on the top for fittings......I had a spare oil tube so I cut it ..... Would like to know some temp readings from yours if you come across a lazer thermometer.....Target in summer weather should be 225-230...Sure beats 250-285 for sure...

John Underwood

Finn51 · Full Member Joined: Apr 25, 2007 Posts: 59

Thanks John. I ended up useing the origional top fittings and line, but If I was to do over again would rethink that, maybe do it your way and put the restistion into the origional line. There really isn't enough room for hose and clamps up beside the top mount bolts. I wll get one of those laser thermometers and check the top end temps over the summer. We don't get the high temps up here, maybe a few days around 30c, but sitting in traffic can be a problem anywhere. I will keep you posted on my findings, and thanks for the good idea. Finn.

INXS650 · 650Rider Supporter Joined: Mar 22, 2007 Posts: 645

Alright John, I have found a bunch of oil coolers of various bikes. I am assuming on some of these that they will work since they are off bigger bikes. I have a choice of one for an fj1100, honda nighthawks (there are alot of these for cheap), xs1100, and a cb1100f. Which would you recommend, or would you find an xs750/850 one for sure?

xsjohn · Posted: May 18, 2007, 8:03 am Post subject: Re: Top End Oil Cooler

xs750. xs850, xs1100 are the same cooler. .Some even have covers.... I used that one because it lined up with the frame down low and the fittings pointed too where I wanted to go. .. I mounted it low so it wouldn't get in the way of air flow. .. A big wide cooler is not what I wanted but it would work... Personal preference....The only benefit I can see for a larger cooler would be fraffic but I am not sure it would make a huge difference without a fan....If you use a xs cooler make sure it has the fittings.....I ground the huge fittings off and used rubber tubing.....Clean the cooler, paint with satin paint and bake in oven 250 for a couple hrs........Ended up using a screen to cover the front (walmart stationary letter holder 2 bucks)...Need to cover the front of the cooler--70 degrees and below...Tubing could be smaller....They work......Have 2.5 thou on mine....................one with cover ---250116496853 ---In combination with a good lazer thermometer tuning you can ride them all day at 90 degrees at 225-230 head temp instead of frying them......

John Underwood

INXS650 · 650Rider Supporter Joined: Mar 22, 2007 Posts: 645

I just bid on the cooler for the fj1100. It looks as though I can mount it vertically. I hope it works. Will let you know and take pictures if I get it.

xsjohn · Posted: May 18, 2007, 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Top End Oil Cooler

Both inlet and outlet of the cooler need to be up (on top) for sure......So the oil can't drain back............FJ1100 cooler won't work right vertically..........I wouldn't try it that way it will take to much to much time to push the oil up in the cooler and the fill time will mean no oil plus you are adding a different gravity factor that could change the output from my calculations........

Fighting this thing are you........You could find a way that this thing won't work...Not good if you do......

John

INXS650 · 650Rider Supporter Joined: Mar 22, 2007 Posts: 645

John, I figured I could have the inlet on the top of the cooler, and the outlet on the bottom. I thought this would keep the cooler full of oil like yours. I would think it would only have a problem on the initial fill of the cooler. Would this hurt it too badly?

INXS650 · 650Rider Supporter Joined: Mar 22, 2007 Posts: 645

Where did you get the plug? Is it already in the line? Do you have to have one installed?

xsjohn · Posted: May 18, 2007, 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Oil Cooler

INXS650-----If you ran the filler to the top it should work... but I dont know.........Look above in my first post--you have got to have the .125 restrictor on the field side of the cooler and open the original restrictor....Made the new restrictor from aluminum.....Still like the xs coolers better.......There are some on ebay.....250116496853 even has the cover...

Why put a cooler where it is going to block natural air flow.........?

John Underwood

INXS650 · 650Rider Supporter Joined: Mar 22, 2007 Posts: 645

We'll see what I will do when I get it here. Is it absolutly necessary to have both restricters in the lines? If I leave the one in the bottom at original size, won't this slow it down enough for the desired effect? I know it may not run as cool as yours, but dropping it 15-30 degrees in traffic is all I would need. I don't do alot of highway or traffic. Like to cruise mostly back roads at 70mph and under.

xsjohn · Posted: May 18, 2007, 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: Top End Oil Cooler

Open the original restrictor like I showed or the cooler won't work.--You will have too much restriction..Boom...The only restrictor is the new one that is .125.... That cooler you are thinking of using is twice the size of mine. ...It will work if you don't go off my plan but you will have to cover the front of it and at what temp will be your discovery.....Maybe below 75....

john

ttmaniac · Full Member Joined: Dec 22, 2006 Posts: 468

Where can I get a restrictor? I ain't got a lathe here. Is there something else that would work?

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