permanent magnet alternator question

Jungle_Biker

Okay, so I've got my Banshee flywheel and the 3 phase stator from an old Suzuki 250 quad. Everything checks out good. I made my own adapter plate to make all the parts work together and I am pretty happy with it, for me it inspires a lot more confidence than the JB Welded unit I saw on another site. I also have a Pamco ignition and a Mike's XS Green Monster ignition coil.

Alright, so I don't actually have a frame for my engine yet--for now it's just on a roll-around engine stand that I made up for it. I also don't have a final decision on what carb(s) I'm gonna use, so in other words, it's nowhere near ready to run. But I do know that I would like to at least have the option of being able to run batteryless and kick-start only, and Pamcopete tells me that I should be able to do that as long as I can get 6 volts out of my stator while kicking.

So with that in mind, I decided to see what kind of voltage my "new" stator was putting out at starting speed and because I am lazy, I went ahead and used a jumper battery (a small car battery with a set of jumper cables permanently attached to it) and used the starter motor to turn the engine over (with the spark plugs out) while I used my Fluke meter to see what kind of AC voltage I was getting from the yellow wires coming from my stator.

Okay, hooked up the meter, hit the starter and...not much. After fiddling around for a while, the very best I could get out of it was about 2.5 volts AC. I hooked up a regulator/rectifier and checked DC voltage, and it is just as bad. I'm getting beautiful spark from the ignition system, but only because it is running off of the jumper battery voltage .

So what am I doing wrong? Am I just not spinning the engine over fast enough? If I had a set of carbs and an exhaust installed and actually managed to get it started would my alternator voltage come up then?

Out of curiosity I tried checking the AC voltage at the yellow wires on a Kawasaki 454 LTD motor we have at the shop and found that it only had 3.5 volts at starter speed. This 454 LTD engine came out of a running bike, so I am 95% certain that the stator is OK in it.

How much AC voltage should I be seeing at the yellow wires at starting speed? What is normal? For you guys running an RZ/Banshee flywheel and a VFR500 stator, what kind of AC voltage do you get? Is anybody else running the Banshee flywheel and Pamco ignition on a batteryless bike? What stator are you using?

Thanks!

AirHog · Full Member Joined: Apr 28, 2009 Posts: 21 Location: IL

Not sure on the voltages with that flywheel combo, but i think regardless you will need a capacitor inline to run without the battery. IIRC the banshee conversions, setup with caps (no battery with pamco) needed a few kicks to charge up the cap a bit before it would fire up. So that voltage might be about right.

1badzuk · Full Member Joined: Sep 10, 2009 Posts: 44

IIRC the permanent stator mod produces full power as you kick fist kick the capasitor is only there to smoothe the voltage spikes out so your acc. get good juiice

pamcopete

Jungle_biker,

You will definitely need to install a capacitor with that setup. The rectifier output is essentially pulses of DC that the capacitor will store up to produce a steady DC voltage.

Jungle_Biker

Y eah, I installed a capacitor between the red and green wires coming out of my regulator/rectifier but it never seemed to charge up to any more than 2 volts--I wonder if maybe I should have run a jumper from the green wire to ground?

Bear in mind that this is all just testing at this point--when I get it all built into a frame I'll make up my own wiring harness for it, rather than the rat's nest of jumper wires that I have running all over the place right now.

I'll try it again with a jumper from the cap neg terminal to ground as well as to the green wire from the reg/rect. and a jumper from the red pamco wire to the pos terminal of the cap.

Hey, btw, I like the Pamco kit--easy to install, works right away. I'm being careful not to leave it hooked to the battery and to make sure that my spark plugs are properly grounded.

One question on the Green Monster coils from Mike's XS--does it matter which terminal on the coil is attached to pos and which to neg? Niether one is marked.

Thanks again!

pamcopete

Jungle_Biker,

No it doesn't matter which is which on the green monster.

A caution here:

Once you get it going, look out for a high voltage (> 15 Volts) which may occur if you have not connected the regulator properly. There have been a couple of cases where that happened and it fried the PAMCO when the voltage went all the way up to 20 V! So, be sure to have a voltmeter connected to the capacitor when you first fire it up and install a 7 1/2 Amp fuse to the coil and PAMCO red wire. The PAMCO has a protective diode that starts to conduct at 16.3 volts and is supposed to blow the fuse if the battery or capacitor voltage goes above that, but without a fuse, the excess current will just fry the PAMCO.

Jungle_Biker

Thanks, Pete!

wally

Hi
I run a Boyer Ignition they tell me I cant run a capacitor

Boyer reply
The Micro Power ignition system for the XS 650 is a computer based ignition and should be run from a battery for reliable starting.This ignition uses low impedance miniature ignition coils that require higher pulse currents at cranking speeds.
Kick-starting (if possible) will certainly require more effort without a battery fitted, as sufficient electrical power will require higher alternator rpms during the kick, and the computer may not start up cleanly if the initial power is weak.
Regards,
Boyer Bransden

Also I wonder does anyone have a wiring diagram for this convsion

Thanks heaps

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