Overcharging the battery, maybe ... ???

xsleo

If your stator checks out ok then run it untill it quits, then worry about replacing it. Both the rotor and stator are 30+ year old technology. they will quit sooner or later. Getting one rewound with new technology will make a improvement in performance, and reliability.

HndaTch627

xsleo wrote:

If your stator checks out ok then run it untill it quits, then worry about replacing it. Both the rotor and stator are 30+ year old technology. they will quit sooner or later. Getting one rewound with new technology will make a improvement in performance, and reliability.

yeah, i figured i'd probably run it until it died, the brushes are both 11mm long and in good shape, the field coil just looks bad visually but hopefully i can get it to last thru one season. My co-worker gave me the number to a place locally which rewinds all sorts of charging system componets, i am gonna call them tomorrow morning and see what they can do since MikesXS is still out of stock on the Rotors.

Jeremy

nobradovic

I fixed it yesterday !!! Many thanks to all of You. So, what was the problem ? I was just right. The battery was overcharged. Voltage regulator was one to blame. I put the old one, instead new one, which was on my bike. As I told you. this was a VR from car, with spec of 14.5V. So now, I have some questions for electric specialists...

If VR is just VR..., just like Pamcopete sad, how you can explain this. That VR from car, when connected to 50 Ah battery works perfect. It triggers on 14,5V somewhere in between 3500-4500 rpm, but when connected to 14 Ah battery (Exide AGM 14 Ah), it didn't work at all !!! So, I had more than 18V on my battery, when I reached 4000 rpm. My poor little battery works for few days with that voltage, and then died, of course !!! I didn't believe in what I saw, so I checked twice and the results was the same. When I was finished with my "new" charging system, as I wrote in the post, I checked the charging with big, car battery, because I was still working on the bike. I didn't have new motorcycle battery (14Ah) yet. Everything seems to be perfect with the charging, but with big battery. Few days after that, I bought bike battery, and just connected it to my motorcycle. I didn't check charging again. This was mistake ...

"The voltage regulator is a .....voltage regulator. Whether on a car or a motorcycle, it regulates the voltage, not the current. " This is logical, but, if this is true, how VR working, depends on battery capacity ??? It works perfect when it's connected to big (car) battery, as this VR is constructed for car with battery capacity of 45 Ah and more.
... but when you have less "load" like 14 Ah battery, it doesn't works at all !!! So battery capacity, DOES MATTER VERY MUCH, when we talk about different voltage regulators !!!

Thank You All !!!

pamcopete

nobradovic

Some time ago I wrote a post over at the garage suggesting the use of automobile type regulators for the XS650:

xs650temp.proboards.co...ge=1#19006

I also installed these regulators on both my '78/E and my '81/H.

The VR291 regulator on the '78 is from a Jeep with a 60 Amp alternator and a battery to match. The VR295 regulator on the '81/H is from a 1970's Chrysler with alternators up to 100 Amps, and huge batteries to match, so, like I said...they are voltage regulators. Hundreds of XS650 owners have followed my suggestions and are pleased with the results. In fact, if you read the article, there are even a few testimonials complete with voltage readings. Voltage regulators are voltage regulators.

What does have to be matched is the ability of the regulator to track the current requirements of the rotor from no load to full load. The regulators that I reccomended were tested by me to ensure that they tracked the load.

Of course, there are various ways to connect some regulators to the alternator, so perhaps you did not connect your car type regulator correctly, or it is not tracking the load and current requirements of the rotor.

There are basically two types of automobile voltage regulators to match two type of alternators. One brush on each type is either connected to battery or to ground. The voltage regulator provides either a switched battery for the grounded brush models or a switched ground to match the battery brush models.

Your '79 model has a grounded brush and works with switched battery from the regulator. Do you know if that is what the automobile regulator was providing?

So, when I say that an automobile type regulator will work on the XS650, I did not say that ANY automobile type regulator would work on the XS650.

pamcopete

Perhaps I'll take this occasion to offer my little analogy about voltage, current, load and voltage regulators.

If we think of the engine as the alternator, then RPM's are like Volts and torque is like Amps. and the weight of the motorcycle and rollling resistance of the bike is like the load (watts) on the alternator. The rider is the RPM (voltage) regulator not a torque (Amp) regulator.

If the rider (regulator) wants to maintain a constant RPM (voltage) as he rides down the road, he will adjust the throttle (rotor current) according to what the tach tells him.

If the bike encounters a hill, the rider (regulator) will adjust the throttle (rotor current) to produce more torque (amps) to overcome the increased load (weight). The rider is not looking at torque (amps) when he increases the throttle openeing, he is looking at RPM (voltage). A by product of this action is an increase in torque (amps), but that is not what the rider is monitoring. So, the rider is an RMP (voltage) regulator.

That same rider (voltage regulator) could get off of the bike and get into a truck, which weighs more and has much greater rolling resistance (load). If he drove that truck and maintained the same RPM (voltage), he would also increase the throttle opening (rotor current) to maintain the desired RPM (voltage) when he encountered a hill (increased load). In the process, the engine (alternator) would produce a lot more torque (amps) than the motorcycle, but, again, that is not what the rider (regulator) is even aware of.

So, in maintaing a given RPM (voltage) on either a motorcycle or a truck, the torque (amps) is changed to match the load, but the rider (regulator) is not regulating torque (amps). He is just keeping his eye on the tach (voltmeter).

The same rider (regulator) can ride or drive any vehicle and maintain a constant RPM (voltage) regardles of the change in torque (amps). In fact, the rider (regulator) is not even aware of the change in torque. The rider is a RPM (voltage) regulator.

Now, if the idle adjustment is set too high, then even with no load (idling) the RPM's (voltage) will be high. The rider (regulator) can twist the throttle all the way down, but the RPM's (voltage) are still high, even higher than cruise speed. For voltage regulators, this is known as minimum regulated load. Some regulators are built with a very high minimum regulated load because they are built for vehicles that have a high load. Those regulators would not be suitable for the XS650 because the XS650 has a relatively low load, so using a regulator with a high minimum load setting would cause the voltage to go high, because the load is low, just like idling the bike in neutral with a high idle setting.

The regulators I chose to reccomend have a low minimum regulated load, and I tested them to verify that. In the XS650, the usual cause of a low load condition is when the headlight burns out, drasticall reducing the load. I tested the reccomended regulators with the headlight disconnected and they maintained a correct 14.5 volts at cruise RPM's.

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

Good stuff, Pete! Thanks for the info.

What Happened to 650rider.com?

Yamaha xs650