650Rider, xs650 hosted by XS650.com

What Happened to 650rider.com?

650 Rider went offline for about a month at the beginning of 2010. In order to save the technical information that was here, XS650.com acquired the site and brought it back online as a read-only archive. If you were a member of 650 Rider, you will need to re-register at XS650.com

     [x] 650Rider Menu
 Community Search Information


xs650 > > Motorcycle Systems > > Exhaust > > check out this site

SearchSearch


check out this site
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
    Forum Index -> Exhaust
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
pumps
650Rider Supporter
650Rider Supporter


Joined: May 29, 2007
Posts: 1993
Location: Kansas City, Missouri, U.S.A.- 1977 XS650 "D" Standard

PostPosted: May 8, 2009, 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: check out this site

Barb has a hack, where is Barb?
_________________
You don't HAVE to be crazy to run into burning buildings, but it HELPS!
On an XS you won't pass yourself on the road everyday. Wink

My Bikes
Back to top
Photo Gallery
xs1961
650Rider Supporter
650Rider Supporter


Joined: Apr 23, 2007
Posts: 1808
Location: uk

PostPosted: May 9, 2009, 10:57 am    Post subject: Re: check out this site

I just emailed you the same Query , hope youve recieved it this time Smile
btw, are these also made in stainless ?
Cheers

_________________
1 running 650
2.5 bikes in bits,
no time,
gradually losing intrest... God help me...
Back to top
Photo Gallery
xs1961
650Rider Supporter
650Rider Supporter


Joined: Apr 23, 2007
Posts: 1808
Location: uk

PostPosted: May 9, 2009, 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: check out this site

Nope..My email to info@mycompany.com has been returned as 'undelivered ' again .... Confused
_________________
1 running 650
2.5 bikes in bits,
no time,
gradually losing intrest... God help me...
Back to top
Photo Gallery
gordonscott
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: May 06, 2009
Posts: 304

PostPosted: May 26, 2009, 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: check out this site

Hello, I thoght I would share a set of pipes I just finished, they are my "Mile Pipes" for stock frame with welded on glasspacks and 3" tips P.S. to Barb, I have some sidcar info to share after a little more work and testing Wink


cimg4243.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  228.7 KB
 Viewed:  382 Time(s)

cimg4243.jpg


cimg4245.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  214.63 KB
 Viewed:  378 Time(s)

cimg4245.jpg


cimg4242.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  216.89 KB
 Viewed:  424 Time(s)

cimg4242.jpg


_________________
gordonscottengineering @ verizon.net
Back to top
Photo Gallery
xs1961
650Rider Supporter
650Rider Supporter


Joined: Apr 23, 2007
Posts: 1808
Location: uk

PostPosted: May 26, 2009, 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: check out this site

whats the price mate ? need to know if you ship? Confused
_________________
1 running 650
2.5 bikes in bits,
no time,
gradually losing intrest... God help me...
Back to top
Photo Gallery
royfisk
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: May 24, 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: winchester, new hampshire usa

PostPosted: May 27, 2009, 9:19 pm    Post subject: Re: check out this site

Hey all went down and see all the stuff first hand. Its as good as it looks, and I beleive I may need a new set of the mile pipes on my xsl bike of course with supertrapps, but the bombs sound way cool. Thanks for the tank deal real treat. Looking forward to my next visit. I would like to see about making up a swingarm brace for my tx 750 swingarm. I dont know hoe they would sell but Im sure you would sell some. especially do it yourself weld on. You might consider one of those on the hack too... see you later all.
_________________
build them , ride them, tear them down, rebuild them, ride them, etc. etc. etc.. They only get better and better
Back to top
Photo Gallery
gordonscott
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: May 06, 2009
Posts: 304

PostPosted: May 28, 2009, 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: check out this site

Hi Roy, thanks for the kind word on my stuff. It was nice to meet you too and we should do a ride soon, I know your scoot isn't ready yet but your welcome to pilot one of mine Wink
_________________
gordonscottengineering @ verizon.net
Back to top
Photo Gallery
gordonscott
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: May 06, 2009
Posts: 304

PostPosted: May 28, 2009, 10:39 am    Post subject: Re: check out this site

sorry "61" I spaced out on your reply, you can see the pipes and prices here... mysite.verizon.net/reszw9bp/ I ship to UK all the time and have paper work right here to do so Wink I just want to be clear though I'm not trying to pimp my stuff out here on the board but was just happy the way the pipes came out and like to share Very Happy
_________________
gordonscottengineering @ verizon.net
Back to top
Photo Gallery
xs1961
650Rider Supporter
650Rider Supporter


Joined: Apr 23, 2007
Posts: 1808
Location: uk

PostPosted: May 28, 2009, 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: check out this site

Thanks mate, Im really impressed .
Soon as Im solvent ill be in touch

_________________
1 running 650
2.5 bikes in bits,
no time,
gradually losing intrest... God help me...
Back to top
Photo Gallery
gordonscott
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: May 06, 2009
Posts: 304

PostPosted: July 11, 2009, 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: check out this site

Hi Roy and gang, just finished this pipe the other day. I get asked to make pipes for the right side but most designs require you remove exhaust system to do an oil change and the kick-start is also an obstacle. There is no way for me to do a 1+1 hi-pipe on the right side without it being in the way but a 2into1 hi-pipe works and you can check and add oil without removing the pipes. Been out with it a few times now and performs great! Rev’s up real fast and pulls hard to redline, well my redline anyway Laughing I’ll post some noise on you tube… p.s. there is a 2" diameter tube welded to the collector inside the meg cone so you can run a harley or any other 2" baffle for road use, yes it's loud without it!


cimg4432.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  232 KB
 Viewed:  345 Time(s)

cimg4432.jpg


cimg4435.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  233.85 KB
 Viewed:  382 Time(s)

cimg4435.jpg


_________________
gordonscottengineering @ verizon.net
Back to top
Photo Gallery
Mikesxs
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: Feb 06, 2007
Posts: 134
Location: FL

PostPosted: August 1, 2009, 3:09 pm    Post subject: Re: check out this site

In a world where you are going for the maximum Horsepower backpressure is not helpfull but the rest (cam, cam timing, Compression, ignition timing etc. has to be built specifically to optimize this). We are running on the street and need the engine to operate over a wide RPM range and keep the sound level somewhere near legal so some exhaust restriction is needed. A wide open exhaust is not functional on a street machine.
The optimum combination is needed for the best overall acceleration and power and this can only be dialed in on a Dyno. Bench racing & guesses just are not good enough. Small changes sometimes can give very large gains.

Mike @ Mikes XS
Back to top
xs1961
650Rider Supporter
650Rider Supporter


Joined: Apr 23, 2007
Posts: 1808
Location: uk

PostPosted: August 1, 2009, 6:23 pm    Post subject: Re: check out this site

Hell, I dont care as long as they look that good,Ill work around the rest ! Twisted Evil
_________________
1 running 650
2.5 bikes in bits,
no time,
gradually losing intrest... God help me...
Back to top
Photo Gallery
Jack
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: Mar 15, 2005
Posts: 411

PostPosted: August 1, 2009, 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: check out this site

xs1961 wrote:
Hell, I dont care as long as they look that good,Ill work around the rest ! Twisted Evil
Loud pipes that LOOK GOOD do little in return to enhance gas velocity which leads to better cylinder scavenging overall,that's where power is made and when it comes to street riding,backpressure can be a very useful tool in building greater amounts of low to mid range torque and HP making the engine more responsive where most street cruising takes place. Just depends on where you want the power to come in at,I guess.
Back to top
xs1961
650Rider Supporter
650Rider Supporter


Joined: Apr 23, 2007
Posts: 1808
Location: uk

PostPosted: August 1, 2009, 7:26 pm    Post subject: Re: check out this site

Yeah, I know what youre saying mate, dont get me wrong , Id never run open pipes without cans , what I meant was the actual pipes look good - Id add some silencers(or muflers as yo call 'em) to get me some back pressure /performance..
_________________
1 running 650
2.5 bikes in bits,
no time,
gradually losing intrest... God help me...
Back to top
Photo Gallery
gordonscott
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: May 06, 2009
Posts: 304

PostPosted: August 1, 2009, 11:32 pm    Post subject: Re: check out this site

Hi Mike, I agree with MOST of what you said. Backpressure is not good for max HP (never seen dragsters with mufflers LOL…) but backpressure will make it a LOT easier to jet and for the street motor is a good thing. That’s why my pipe can take a baffle (highly recommended) and good baffles can be bought but spendy ($40 and up). You will also notice I say “rev’s up to redline, well my redline anyway” so I’m light hearted about this whole thing and not trying to tell people they will get big performance gains with my stuff (even though my site has generic performance banner) YOU WERE RIGHT when you said “cam, cam timing, compression, ignition timing etc… has to be built specifically to optimize this” SO TRUE!!! You cannot just take a pipe and bolt it on a bike and expect 10+HP gains, not going to happen and I’m glad you agree Wink In the chopper world there are a lot of sacrifices made for “arts sake” sometimes safety, sometimes function, not saying it’s right or wrong, just is. The one thing you are wrong about is “bench racing and guesses” if you are referring to me? While true chopper pipes (most of what I make) are for looks first, the people that have bought them know this. But SOME of the ones I’m allowed to design instead of the customer perform better then you might think, why? I’m not guessing! Need some proof? Lets just say for the sake of argument I had one of your 750 big bore's? What would you say to a 2? ½” long, 1 ¾” pipe with a 17 ½” meg and 1” reverse cone? Sound familiar? Ya I’ve been around for a while too. Mike, you provide a great service and many are grateful including myself, I’m just a little guy trying to pay for some tools, afford this hobby and buy parts from you, got thousands in receipts to prove it LOL… so no threat here my friend, carry on and get us some more cool stuff to buy. Regards, Scott
_________________
gordonscottengineering @ verizon.net


Last edited by gordonscott on August 2, 2009, 12:58 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
Photo Gallery
gordonscott
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: May 06, 2009
Posts: 304

PostPosted: August 2, 2009, 12:34 am    Post subject: Re: check out this site

Jack wrote:
xs1961 wrote:
Hell, I don’t care as long as they look that good, Ill work around the rest! Twisted Evil
Loud pipes that LOOK GOOD do little in return to enhance gas velocity which leads to better cylinder scavenging overall, that’s where power is made and when it comes to street riding, backpressure can be a very useful tool in building greater amounts of low to mid range torque and HP making the engine more responsive where most street cruising takes place. Just depends on where you want the power to come in at, I guess.
Hi Jack, I’m confused? We want the spent fuel gone, no reason to keep it, right? You say so yourself! So wont backpressure keep it there? You say " loud pipes that look good do little in return to enhance gas velocity" I say noise has NO effect on performance, just go to ANY type of race! The pipe needs to be the right size and length to siphon the remaining gasses the piston cannot push out on it’s own, period. I understand to make HP every thing needs to work in harmony but it boils down to how much air and fuel is moved. I think we are saying the same thing; it’s just the terminology that’s different, backpressure/ability to siphon and not revert back to carb. Again proper length and diameter pipes is key for mods made.

_________________
gordonscottengineering @ verizon.net
Back to top
Photo Gallery
gordonscott
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: May 06, 2009
Posts: 304

PostPosted: August 2, 2009, 12:50 am    Post subject: Re: check out this site

xs1961 wrote:
Yeah, I know what youre saying mate, dont get me wrong , Id never run open pipes without cans , what I meant was the actual pipes look good - Id add some silencers(or muflers as yo call 'em) to get me some back pressure /performance..
Backpressure/restriction hurts perfomance, saying you need it is like saying "you need more choke" not my quote Laughing And another thing, tourqe can be and is had with open pipes, go to the tractor pulls and look for mufflers Laughing and they need more tourqe then anyone! I'm just tring to make a point, it's all good Wink

_________________
gordonscottengineering @ verizon.net
Back to top
Photo Gallery
xs1961
650Rider Supporter
650Rider Supporter


Joined: Apr 23, 2007
Posts: 1808
Location: uk

PostPosted: August 2, 2009, 3:40 am    Post subject: Re: check out this site

I only need 'round town' performance Gordon, Im not knocking your pipes , I think theyre the dogs nadgers (read - superb) , but where I live youd never get away with open pipes , Id be forced to leave ..the loudest thing youll hear around my way is the birds singing.. Wink
_________________
1 running 650
2.5 bikes in bits,
no time,
gradually losing intrest... God help me...
Back to top
Photo Gallery
Mikesxs
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: Feb 06, 2007
Posts: 134
Location: FL

PostPosted: August 2, 2009, 7:18 am    Post subject: Re: check out this site

Gordonscott: Just commenting that real numbers on a dyno are the only actual proof in the end. Seat of the pants feel gives an indication but a dyno points out the actual results of where the testing/design is going.
Pamcopete has been testing various ignition coils I have been submitting to him and had one coil type give a fuel milage increase from about 50MPG to about 66MPG with no other changes ( using the Pamco electronic ignition) This was suprising but we could not have expected this Large milage increase ( a Power increase from burning the fuel in the engine more efficiently ) so it's possible to get good gains but there is a large amount of randomness to it depending on the many possible combinations.
Proof in the end is what customers want as they seem to never accept that a 43HP twin can be taken most of the way to 70HP + without radical changes. Once we get enough dyno time we hope to publish results of the best combinations of upgrades for all to examine.

Mike @ Mikes XS
Back to top
gordonscott
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: May 06, 2009
Posts: 304

PostPosted: August 2, 2009, 9:06 am    Post subject: Re: check out this site

Absolutely true Mike!!! And yes very small changes can make a big difference so there is real science involved. As far as 70 rear wheel horsepower? sure it can be done and has 30yrs ago! I’m just not so sure you want too? “When Harley took the next step in XR750 power Yamaha responded by pushing the XS650 power envelope even further. With Tim Witham in charge of development the XS reached the 75 RWHP threshold with stock head castings. While the bikes were rockets, things began going wrong. Broken transmissions, cases and connecting rods were the worst, but clutches and valve trains were breaking too”
from the “XS Performance and racing guide”. Like you said we are riding these on the street and need to be somewhat reliable. Also it was not easy for these guys to get to 70hp, a bit of work indeed.

_________________
gordonscottengineering @ verizon.net
Back to top
Photo Gallery
gordonscott
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: May 06, 2009
Posts: 304

PostPosted: August 2, 2009, 9:26 am    Post subject: Re: check out this site

xs1961 wrote:
I only need 'round town' performance Gordon, Im not knocking your pipes , I think theyre the dogs nadgers (read - superb) , but where I live youd never get away with open pipes , Id be forced to leave ..the loudest thing youll hear around my way is the birds singing.. Wink
I understand the need to be civilized and I personally like quieter exhaust these days as well (getting old lol…) I have enjoyed my past few days ridding my stock “77” so quiet and smooth. I know this is ironic since I make pipes but Mike’s exhaust for the standard might be on my list or at least those mufflers? (mine are rusty inside) Mike, do you have any sound clips of those? " Best sounding Mufflers ever made for the 650 " I'm looking for a nice deep tone, if they have it I would be very Very Happy

_________________
gordonscottengineering @ verizon.net
Back to top
Photo Gallery
Jack
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: Mar 15, 2005
Posts: 411

PostPosted: August 2, 2009, 11:35 am    Post subject: Re: check out this site

gordonscott wrote:
Jack wrote:
xs1961 wrote:
Hell, I don’t care as long as they look that good, Ill work around the rest! Twisted Evil
Loud pipes that LOOK GOOD do little in return to enhance gas velocity which leads to better cylinder scavenging overall, that’s where power is made and when it comes to street riding, backpressure can be a very useful tool in building greater amounts of low to mid range torque and HP making the engine more responsive where most street cruising takes place. Just depends on where you want the power to come in at, I guess.
Hi Jack, I’m confused? We want the spent fuel gone, no reason to keep it, right? You say so yourself! So wont backpressure keep it there? You say " loud pipes that look good do little in return to enhance gas velocity" I say noise has NO effect on performance, just go to ANY type of race! The pipe needs to be the right size and length to siphon the remaining gasses the piston cannot push out on it’s own, period. I understand to make HP every thing needs to work in harmony but it boils down to how much air and fuel is moved. I think we are saying the same thing; it’s just the terminology that’s different, backpressure/ability to siphon and not revert back to carb. Again proper length and diameter pipes is key for mods made.

Hey Scott......first of all I was in no way bashing you or any of your exhaust system with the exception of the open ended megaphone. You see I've been around the block a few time myself building exhaust system for my street projects over many years and it doesn't take an engineering degree or a rocket scientist to know that a small displaced motor with a short stroke,they generate very low sweep volumes on the up and down strokes relative to pistons speeds and on a street driven motorcycle where low RPMs occur, some back pressure above the piston tops can be beneficial on the exhaust stroke as the piston approaches TDC by ever so slight creating a positive pressure point to help force out the remaining burnt gases and in doing so,this in return speeds up the exhaust gas velocity in the port at low to mid RPM to further assist in cylinder scavenging. The key is to set up your exhaust system to your riding style,as I stated early backpressure can be a vital tool in tuning any motor
to increase torque and HP and engine breaking in the low to mid range over any open style exhaust system. Have you ever seen a super speedway motorcycle running any type of open exhaust system,of course not,those muffler manufactures speed millions in research to develop an exhaust system to generate higher negative pressure tail in further assisting the scavenging effect in the combustion chamber and to increase the initial intake charge.
It's obvious you and I share different opinions on back pressure,as it's arguably a topic that has no right or wrong side effects.
If I sent you a complete baffle core,could you build a megaphone shell to my specs to fit it?


Last edited by Jack on August 2, 2009, 12:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
Joseph
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: May 22, 2007
Posts: 767
Location: NY

PostPosted: August 2, 2009, 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: check out this site

Some one must know , someone who has the equipment to conclusively test this. I guess no back pressure would be a wide open short pipe, or no pipe, long pipes say 1.5" id with no baffles must provide a little back presure. So my question to whoever may have tested this, is a long open pipe enough for these 650's? Or would you get more torque from a pipe with baffle? If noise isn't a factor?
_________________
Joeymountain
1980sg


Last edited by Joseph on August 2, 2009, 12:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
Photo Gallery
royfisk
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: May 24, 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: winchester, new hampshire usa

PostPosted: August 2, 2009, 12:32 pm    Post subject: Re: check out this site

I just want to step in here a bit, this is a out of control arguement. First of all on the street with a street engine (STREET ENGINE) back pressure is needed to scavage the exhaust gasses properly and efficiantly. Open exhaust Sound cool yes but do little in the way of improveing performance on a street engine. Now as for your comments on dyno's mike. Your not the only one who has access to one. Scott these guys are looking for numbers lets give them some. Bring your bike and megaphone pipe, plus your mile pipe down to jeffs and run both and give the guys some numbers. I can tell you right now the mile pipe is going to come out on top. But the open meg can also be baffled on the dyno for optimum performance. Jeff would be up to this for a small reasonable fee. And you would have to answer to no one cause Jeff would give the facts.
_________________
build them , ride them, tear them down, rebuild them, ride them, etc. etc. etc.. They only get better and better
Back to top
Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index -> Exhaust All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4


Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


   

Check out the new Honda CB750 Forum at CB750.com! A site dedicated to the great Honda SOHC and DOHC CB750.

Check out the new Yamaha XS400 Forum at XS400.com!

Yamaha xs650

xs650, xs, 650, forum, links, chopper, custom, yamaha, parts, forum, info, information, bb, bulletin board, XS650
650Rider, Free Unrestricted xs650 forum, Personal photo albums, Post images in Forum, News columns, Daily blog, Links, Event calendar, Information for Yamaha XS650



Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy