Looking for adivce...

hutch08 · Full Member Joined: Sep 04, 2009 Posts: 22

So heres the deal, I picked up a 1979 xs650 that was slightly cafe inspired. Ran great, in excellent shape with about 20xxx kms / 12xxx miles on the clock and looked well taken care of. I'm building a custom bobber with it and would like some advice on the heart of the beast. The motor has about 145psi on the right and about 140psi on the left, with no serious oil leaks, other than a few seals that need replacing. Is it worth tearing the engine down and doing an overhaul? Or am I just wasting my time? Other than a slight tick that dissapeared when I re-adjusted the valves and re-tightened the cam chain, it seems to run perfect.

I'm not looking to build a drag bike here, but I would like some reliability. I've been searching and searching but it just seems like theres so many *mods* you can do to these bikes Im sort of overwhelmed. Upgrading the ignition, regulator, rectifier, carbs, cams, big bores, etc...

I will be running some super short headers with torque cones, and feel that upgrading to some mikuni 34s is needed? and also is the pamco/boyer really worth it? or will the stock points do just fine?

Is there anything around this amount of mileage I should be looking for, or need replacing?

All I want is a *semi-reliable* power-plant that will get me on my way with the minimalist of components and wiring.

Any tips or advice?

Thanks...

xjwmx · Posted: November 17, 2009, 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for adivce...

It sounds like you're getting ready to build something, so if it was me while I was at it I'd open up the motor and check a few clearances. If I wasn't going to build something, I wouldn't do that, since it appears to be okay.

scotts · Posted: November 17, 2009, 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for adivce...

Sounds OK to me. Replace any seals/repair leaks, change the oil, set the points.
The Pamco is way worth it.
It's my understanding that torque cones are for larger exhaust on (usually) worked engines that have lost a little low end. Not sure you'll need them on a stock engine with stock diameter pipes. Maybe because yours will be "shorties"?

royfisk · Posted: November 17, 2009, 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for adivce...

Points work fine, assumeing you can maintain them. newbies and unknowing people will argue the dependability of points but they do work and work good. There not the nightmare that some pretend them to be either. I have gotten bikes that the previous owners told me that they had them for 15-20 years and didnt even know there bike had points much less replace them. I would however change the ignition coil to a higher output coil these old ones are just that and dont produce what they once did. The 34 mm vm carburators are my choice of fuel dilivery as well. The one engine mod that I feel is essential is head porting. These bikes are so choked up stock and it is so easy and cheap to clean your ports up that it should be manditory on any top end teardown. With that being said I would tear the head off, port the head, put in new valve seals, cam chain guide, re seal . and enjoy.

gggGary · Full Member Joined: Jan 07, 2009 Posts: 114

I vote on the leave it alone. You can do an overhaul anytime and there is a lot to do already on a bobber project. Maybe you are the kind who can get everything right the first time. I am more of a get it all on the bike try it, change what needs changing then do a final clean up, paint job. The overhaul if needed can wait till then. Or the year after. I also agree, points are fine on a twin, OEM coils not so much.

gggGary · Full Member Joined: Jan 07, 2009 Posts: 114

I vote on the leave it alone. You can do an overhaul anytime and there is a lot to do already on a bobber project. Maybe you are the kind who can get everything right the first time. I am more of a get it all on the bike try it, change what needs changing then do a final clean up, paint job. The overhaul if needed can wait till then. Or the year after. I also agree, points are fine on a twin, OEM coils not so much.

pumps · Posted: November 18, 2009, 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for adivce...

I vote let it be too. The Pamco set up is a good thing but there is nothing wrong with points either. The reg/rectifier upgrades can be done not too expensively and are a good idea as these bike new had sort of weak charging systems. You'll probably be re-wiring so not reusing much of the stock harness? If so I would suggest cleaning all your connections you're reusing..

hutch08 · Full Member Joined: Sep 04, 2009 Posts: 22

Thanks for the info, i guess i'll be leaving the motor as it sits, just still deciding on fuel delivery and electrical. Will my stock carbs be tuneable enough? And if im replacing the coils for a dual output, should i just get the pamco while im at it?

I really dont want to get stranded because of some electrical issue, so maybe i'll do the reg/rect mod as well.

Replacing the battery wouldnt hurt either, any experience with those AGM that mikesXS sells?

gordo · Posted: November 18, 2009, 10:48 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for adivce...

Ok, if your going to go with the dual output coil, you'l either have to change the point's cam to a single bump, or go with the Pamco.

Your stock carb's are plenty for your stock engine. There is alot of part's available to get them running correctly.And because your going to run open exhaust, you will have to rejet them. That said, do not buy really large jet's thinking that the more the merrier, cylinder 'wash' wipe's these engine's right out. Get 'er running first, see how it run's, then start your carb mod's.Most time's just one or two sizes up take's care of the popping problem's. These carb's are not as mysterious as there made out to be.Same with the point's. Point's were used in most vehicle's until the early '70s. If it work's, don't fix it, I allway's say.However, reliability of today's electronic's is very good, so the Pamco is a good upgrade.
The weak spot on these machine's is the charging system, to go further, the rotor's. I went through 3 rotor's until I located a bad ground.The engine to the frame was where the bad ground was, figure that. What I did to repair that was make a cable up & connected it to the engine & where the negative battery cable bolt's to the frame.8000 mile's later & no problem's with the battery/ charging system.

And like other's have stated, the electrical connection's are 30+ year's old,a good cleaning then lubeing them with dielectric grease is a must. Don't forget the connection's in the headlite,too. The kill switch also. A little work, but well worth it. AGM seem's to be the bomb nowaday's. Very Happy

chromeyblue · Posted: November 18, 2009, 11:21 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for adivce...

Hey hutch08!!!!
y english is not so good like yours but you put my words on your post even the 1979 xs, my is an special II, I start with my proyect about a month ago and I just asking a lot of ???? everywhere and I would like to thank every one of you guys and my friends here in El Paso Tx. because every day I learn more and more and the answers and help and knowledge of these guys xjwmx,scotts,royfisk,gggGary,pumps and gordo with their answers is just great and here is my ???? you guys said change your ignition coil can you tell me wich is the best to buy and where? and what is a Pamco??? and where I can get it Thank you and I hope we continue posting and have are rides (BOBBERS) ready soooooon.
Gabe.

hutch08 · Full Member Joined: Sep 04, 2009 Posts: 22

Yeah, it really helps to get great answers from these guys... makes life alot easier. For the dual output coil and pamco, i'm gonna hit up xs650direct.com but if your ordering to the U.S. mikesxs.com would be my best bet. They sell a kit that has everything you need including the pamco ignition, coil, plug wires, instructions, etc...

Im waiting on my frame from Ardcore Choppers so in the mean time i'm trying to get the heart of the beast sorted out.... hopefully by spring i will be terrorizing the streets!

hutch08 · Full Member Joined: Sep 04, 2009 Posts: 22

Last night i was checking out my motor, figuring what seals/gaskets i needed to order. I pulled both oil filters and found a small amount of black plastic, looked like broken toothpics. Im assuming this is pieces of my cam chain guide, is this serious? Or is it normal to find some in the filter? If I do need to replace it, what other parts will i need. I really was hoping I wouldnt have to tear into my motor at all....

Opinions?

gordo · Posted: November 21, 2009, 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for adivce...

Well, to replace the guide, the head has to come off. So you would need to replace the head gasket, cam seal's & bearing's, cam gasket's & 'o'ring's. Now some thing's like the cam bearing's can be reused, but if your allready there. I did a top end rebuild on mine, & the guide is now doing what your's is. But I have been riding it until I pull the engine to polish it up. That's when I'll replace the guide. It's a bit noisy up top, but I'm not worried because the guide is made of aluminium, & the shaving's(if any) won't pass thru the filter's.

So ride it for a little bit, but of course be reasonable with the engine speed. No redline jaunt's, just putt around & enjoy the bike 'till it's so cold you won't be riding anymore, then pull the engine & do the top end, Also, the valve seal's should be done.

hutch08 · Full Member Joined: Sep 04, 2009 Posts: 22

Yeah, when I got the bike the timing chain was out of adjustment, I'm assuming all the slack in the chain is what caused the wear on the cam guide. I'm leaning towards risking it and not pulling my motor apart. Funds are kind of tight, and if I pull it apart id rather be able to freshen up alot more than just the cam guide. Any objections?

pumps · Posted: November 21, 2009, 10:38 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for adivce...

chromeyblue- a link to pamopetes ignition. Pete is a rider and a member here and over at 650 garage and I think we are very lucky he rides an XS instead of something else.
www.yamahaxs650.com/
I have it installed on my XS.

What Happened to 650rider.com?

Yamaha xs650