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Fort Hood Massacre
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650skull
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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 3:59 am    Post subject: Fort Hood Massacre

This in no way is intended to belittle the horrific deaths and wounding of the people involved in the Fort Hood Massacre. My sympathy goes to the dead and survives and their family and friends


ABC News: Major Nidal Malik Hasan allegedly packed a FN Herstal Five-seveN tactical pistol, which according to federal law enforcement officials,
Hasan may have used an expanded clip in the shooting. was legally purchased from the "Guns Galore" shop in Killeen, Texas in Aug. 2009. The store's manager, David Cheadle, said that particular firearm can hold 20 rounds in a standard clip and take a ten round clip extension. Cheadle said with one clip and one round in the chamber, one could fire 31 rounds before reloading.


13 dead and 30 wounded.... My thoughts are with the families of the dead and wounded ..........
Quote::
Why are these sorts of Guns legally allowed on the street.

I asked this question and all i can get is the "Second Amendment"

Quote::
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Quote::
The concept of a universal militia originated in England.The requirement that subjects keep and bear arms for military duty[

This is the basis and quote of the 2nd Amendment

The second amendment was adopted in 1791 The days of the flintlock and long riffle.
In 1851 the precursor of the Gatling gun (1861 thereabouts) was invented.
Now we have a hand gun that has a 20 round with a 10 round extension, (31 rounds with one in the spout), that has the capacity to murder 13 people and wound 30. Rather a big difference in styles of guns from when the 2nd amendment was adopted 218 years ago

No one is going to stop someone from killing someone else if that is the intent.
I am not questioning the 2nd amendment and the right to bear arms.

What i am Questioning is why do you need the 31 shot automatic hand gun that can be bought at a Guns Galore to protect your self. Surely a 6 shot revolver or a 9 shot semiautomatic would be more than sufficient.

Quote::
XSjohn: The real question might be is why was Hasan allowed on the street..(facts on this guy to come)...the guns didn't shoot the solders he did....

As your quote john says the gun didn't shoot the solders but how many lives would have been saved if the Military style guns were not made available, (by the Guns Galore Supermarkets), to the public

So i ask again. Why have these types of weapons on the shelf
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nj1639
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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: Fort Hood Massacre

Hey skull,
The question that you ask, " Why have these types of weapons on the shelf?" is a moot point and one that is used by the anti-gun crowd.

The evolution of firearms is something that will continue to occur and has since the first hand cannon was developed. During the American War for Independence, there were many British and German mothers bemoaning the fact that their sons and husbands were being killed by rifles that the americans were using. The accuracy of the flintlock 'rifle' over the military issued 'smoothbore musket' was overwhelming and considered unfair. In capable hands the rifle can be dead on at 300 yards while the musket may hit a pie pan at 75 yards.

The real question should be "how do you protect yourself from a madman intent on killing?"
This bastard, hasan, knew he would be able to inflict a lot of damage before the MPs' would arrive to level the playing field.

When asked about invading the west coast of the states during the second world war, a Japanese general replied that it was out of the question because , " There's a gun behind every blade of grass."

The 2nd Amendment is a God Given Right, according to the Constitution, and will continue to be such untill they can get Him out of the Constitution.

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xsjohn
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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: Fort Hood Massacre

May have been just as bad or even worse if he had grenades or just blown himself up........or a suitcase nuke....then there would be no Fort Hood..........or a lot less of it anyway........

Could be that we just got so liberal that we can't finish a war like we used too................our Generals finished it then came home.....

What's the deal with these Muslims walking around on our streets preaching against us anyway.......have we lost our minds......
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Barbara
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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 12:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Fort Hood Massacre

Thank you, Skull, for starting a separate thread, I appreciate it. Now then....to keep it fairly on topic, let's look at gun control. Has it worked? Well, of course not.

The first recorded instance of so-called gun control was the following:

"Since an especially dangerous kind of firearms have come to be use, which are called vulgarly stone guns, with which a homicide can easily be committed; in knowledge of this, His Excellency, knowing that these are devilish arms, prohibits their being carried without explicit authorization, under penalty of having a hand publicly cut off."

That was in Italy, in 1522, and the "especially dangerous" firearm was a wheel-lock pistol, which, unlike the prevailing firearm, the matchlock, could be carried loaded and ready to fire. We can judge how well laws against citizens carrying firearms have succeeded by looking at the hundred's of years and laws since then.....

Let's play "What if" for a second, OK? Like What if the civilian police who took down the bad guy happened to be armed with the same pistol. Would the pistol be a hero? Of course not, it's metal and plastic. Would it be a monster? Nope--it just saved lots of lives. What if a soldier stationed there had been armed and stopped that psycho after the first shot? Would his pistol have been a hero? No, of course not: it is *always* the mind behind the implement, for better or worse.

So I believe that it isn't the tool, it is the mind directing it.

Something else, with apologies for a long post: If one is going to quote the Second Amendment, please quote the entire Amendment: "A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the PEOPLE (emphasis mine) to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

It doesn't say the right of the militia; it says the right of the people. The assumption of universal militia duty is an aside: the right of the people to always remain armed is a reflection not only of duty but trust. In the United States at least, the People are the final authority.

If all of those soldiers at Ft. Hood had been carrying sidearms, that monster would have gotten off two or three shots before being taken down, and we would still be mourning, but not mourning over a dozen helpless people slaughtered.

So, having seen the utter futility of attempts to ban firearms, how can one argue against law-abiding people having them available? Seriously, it puzzles me.

Thanks for listening, Guys.

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xsjohn
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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 1:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Fort Hood Massacre

I totally believe in the 2nd amendment....... but was just wondering what would have happened if all of them had been armed.....and all being in the same or similar uniforms and everyone yielding a gun.......who was to know who the bad guy was........what a mess that could turn into ..........
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nj1639
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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 2:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Fort Hood Massacre

Excellant Barb!
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pamcopete
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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Fort Hood Massacre

Barbara,

I don't know if you have had any military service, but I have, and from that experience I can tell you that arming the soldiers at a military base is not a good idea.

The military attracts the best and the worst. People from all over the place are forced to live in close quarters, and they don't always get along, The tension is palpable. Fights and acts of intimidation are fairly common. On top of that the military right now is fighting an alarming suicide rate, so not a good idea to arm the soldiers on base.

Other factors on a base the size of FT. Hood:

1. There are drug dealers on the base. (Let’s give them a gun!)
2. There are loan sharks (payday lenders) on the base. (They need a gun too!)
3. There is rampant theft of personal property on the base. (Lock up your Glock!)
4. Officer “fragging” is always a problem.
5. Not all service people are trained safe gun handlers.

As for banning firearms, we already ban certain weapons, such as machine guns, RPG's and WMD's. The weapon that this perpetrator used had a magazine capacity oh 30 + rounds with a quick reload clip. There is no legitimate use for such a weapon as a self defense weapon or hunting weapon. I am in favor of the right to bear arms, but there has to be some control over the types of guns that can be legally purchased.

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650skull
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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 5:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Fort Hood Massacre

Quote::
The real question should be "how do you protect yourself from a madman intent on killing?"

nj1639, you can't, the best way would be to limit his killing power.
Quote::
The question that you ask, " Why have these types of weapons on the shelf?" is a moot point and one that is used by the anti-gun crowd.
and that is not an answer, are you a politition Smile

Is it to early to make a judgment on the killer as a terrorist Just because he shouted God is great.
I don't think i would have much faith in my fellow beings after listening to years of the tales of returning solders. Who is debriefing the debriefs.
What makes Solders sneak out and kill a family and rape a 14 year old girl before killing her. (Irac). Look at the trouble the solders stationed in Japan keep getting into. Rapes, Murders.

It would be easy if he is found to be a radical Muslim, but what if he is found to be a man of Muslim faith who just lost it because of the pressure he was under and the system has let him down.
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xsjohn
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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Fort Hood Massacre

Maybe he was just going for the virgins...........
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pamcopete
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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 6:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Fort Hood Massacre

xsjohn wrote:
Maybe he was just going for the virgins...........

John, this is an example of what I said before about your lack of respect for the victims of the Fort Hood tragedy. Anything for a yuk.

The bodies are still warm and you're making jokes.........Pathetic and obscene.

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xsjohn
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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Fort Hood Massacre

Where does beating this creep show lack of respect for the victims......just a way for you to beat on me as I see it..........my statement relates to the media and others making excuses for this guy........there is no excuse for cold blooded murder...........
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nj1639
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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 6:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Fort Hood Massacre

No such thing as crime prevention.
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pamcopete
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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Fort Hood Massacre

650skull.[/quote wrote:

It would be easy if he is found to be a radical Muslim, but what if he is found to be a man of Muslim faith who just lost it because of the pressure he was under and the system has let him down.

Don't start portraying this Jihadist as a victim. His religion had very much to do with his motivation. While he was stateside attending to wounded Americans coming back from the war, he could turn a blind eye to the fact that they were over there killing Muslims. But when he got word that he was to be deployed over there, he had to make up his mind. Was he one of us or one of them. The results speak for themselves.

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xsjohn
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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Fort Hood Massacre

This I think is but just another example of what these radical Muslims intend to do to us....and others in the world......the nuke is going to notch things up considerably and soon.........and all they are doing is talking about that too........
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Barbara
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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Fort Hood Massacre

Hi Guys,

The man took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution and then was quoted in an e-mail as saying that he was "...a Muslim first and an American second".

Sorry, but in my world, that's not OK. Especially in a military officer, but really in anyone. I was raised Catholic, and remember Kennedy having to assure voters that he would answer to the American People, not to the Pope in Rome.

The honorable thing to have done would have been to resign, and live in a country where his (so-called) religion wouldn't be in conflict with his commitment and his oath. Instead he chose to follow the most base of instincts, lose control of his humanity (in the name of a religion, no less) and kill fellow soldiers, any of whom were worth hundreds of him.

So. Excuses? Stress? Dealing with PTSD? Too many hours? Y'know what? Tough Sh*t. No excuse is acceptable for such an horrific act. None.

The man is despicable, and worthy only of the business end of a rope. He betrayed the Country that gave him food, shelter, an education and an honorable career. He threw it away and in my opinion is the lowest of the low, a coward, and a foolishly blind zealot.

I pray he burns in hell on a hot day.

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xsjohn
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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Fort Hood Massacre

As always Barb can speak with conviction ...............

He will be recovered from the near dead at tax payers expense and millions will be spent ...............
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pamcopete
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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 7:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Fort Hood Massacre

This Jihadist was smart enough to know that he could inflict more casualties at Fort Hood than he could after being deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan.

Once over there, he would not have a gathering of so many people as there were at Fort Hood every day. Many of the people over there would be armed and would make short work of his day before he inflicted too much damage. And, the irony of all, he would not be able to buy a weapon like the one he used at Fort Hood. Only in America, not Iraq or Afghanistan, could such a deadly weapon be obtained. His Beretta service pistol wouldn't do the job and he would be a real standout if he came to work with a machine gun, so he had to act before he was deployed.

So, for those of you who think he "snapped" under the stress of his job and that the "system" let him down, he was a deliberate, calculating cold blooded killer who chose his time and place to do the most damage.

And John....of course he has to live. We have to have the opportunity to interrogate him. Even if he never says a word, the fact that he is alive will make any co conspirators nervous and perhaps they will tip their hand.

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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Fort Hood Massacre

Think you pegged that very well...........he chose his best case scenario moment.......dang there must be thousands more with all the open borders ........
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pamcopete
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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 8:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Fort Hood Massacre

John,

This particular individual was a native born US Citizen. People sneaking across the border do not become Majors in the US Armed Forces, or Airline Pilots, or Police Officers or any other position of authority, and that to me is far more troublesome than our open borders.

Do others think the same? Why do you think there was so much resistance to arming airline pilots?

It's like the 1950's movie "The Pod People". Aliens who took over the bodies of citizens so they could infiltrate our society.

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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Fort Hood Massacre

the ones that sneak in can cause a lot of trouble....and eventually will.......it's only really just begun...nukes are next........ships ......planes....trucks....cars....missiles.....even camels...........

We can lock our doors and cars but the pricks in Washington can't lock our borders....too much bull...they are just fools and traitors.......

And the one that has infiltrated that should worry us the most is Obama.....
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Barbara
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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 9:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Fort Hood Massacre

Hi Guys,

I can't help but compare this jerk and his buddies on TV saying how heroic he is with the first and second generation Japanese-Americans in WWII, who really were discriminated against and still proved their love of this Country by enlisting and fighting valiantly in the European Theatre.

The 442nd Regimental Combat Team was one of the most decorated units in WWII, and we need, in the midst of this disaster, to remember that many people new to this Country love it and serve it loyally.

But then, even while we were enemies, the Japanese and Germans had the fortitude to put on a uniform and make a stand-up fight of it. Islamic terrorists haven't that courage, and engage in the faceless and stateless terrorism that is the hallmark of a coward serving a cowardly creed.

CNN is showing fools on street-corners calling that idiot a "hero" and a "person of God". I guess it would be bad form to suggest that their solution would work just as well on them, huh? OK, I won't go there, but I hate the idea that they exist here, protected by the Country and Constitution they profess to loath.

So, two more things: first, I think we should thank all of the loyal and faithful first and second-generation Americans who honestly love and are grateful for their new Country. Second, a warning: Someone wants a jihad against the United States? Know this: we are very slow to anger, but once roused our wrath will know no bounds, and we are stronger than you are. So screw you, jihadists. You sought fear and instead bred anger. Live with it or not, I really don't care.

This sucks--I need a ride! (Oh, wait. In a Muslim country, I wouldn't be allowed to ride. Or drive. Or go outside alone.) Screw it and them,---I'm going for a ride!

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xsjohn
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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 10:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Fort Hood Massacre

I love you woman.....Let's ride on Mecca......John and Barb into the sea of humanity........I can't do the side car though......
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nj1639
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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 10:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Fort Hood Massacre

Again Barb, aces!
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PostPosted: November 7, 2009, 10:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Fort Hood Massacre

Gotta give the girl cop credit for stepping in.......... xsjohn
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