1975 XS650B...worth it or not? (Warning: Long winded post)

scotts

So, we pickedup this 1975 XS650B as part of a package deal. The original intent was to have a parts bike for my Dad's next project. But, the more I look at the bike, the more I consider keeping it and doing a restoration on it.
When I think of motorcycles, this is the kind of bike I see. Nice round tank, flat seat, simple controls. That's what I remember from my childhood; visions of XS's, CB's, KZ's and the like. What REAL motorcycles look like. Not plastic clad street racers.

I undertsand this would be a labor of love. Saving another one just for the sake of saving it. I will most likely be "upside down" financially on this one in the long run, unlike the other XS's I've restored/modified. It's also the first early XS I've owned. All the others have been '80's models.
I've never fully restored a bike. Even the '83 Heritage Special has minor mods (shaved seat, Daytona bars, etc). While this bike would be cosmetically "correct", it would be my intention do do some minor improvements such as a Pamco ignition, polished aluminum parts, etc.

Here are a couple of pics. Next come the pros, cons and some questions...

scotts

The Pros:

- I love the bike. It's what a motorcycle looks like in my mind.
-It's pretty complete, missing only a few minor parts.
-Low miles, only 9,609 miles.
-Long term project. No hurry on this one.
-"Desirable" color scheme

Cons:
-No title. Obtainable, I believe, for ~$125.
-No key.
-Engine is stuck. I have a gut feeling it may be more than just rings, too.
-Some of the missing parts might be hard to find, like correct mufflers.
-Even though it's fairly complete, EVERYTHING would need attention.
-Wouldn't be a 100 point resto. Minor mods, mostly cosmetic or for reliability.
-I'd have to come up with parts for Dad's bike. Triple tree, forks, wheels, brakes, etc.

Questions:
- What years interchanged with the '75? Stuff like a gas cap, tail light holder, etc.
- What's the key service I was told about? I was told I could get some #'s off the bike and have a key cut.
-What other models shared parts (XS400, etc)? Might make it easier to hunt down parts.
-Will running polished wheels, cases, etc. hurt the value VS. a textbook resto.?
-The master cylinder needs rebuilt. I don't see parts at MikesXS.
-In fact, a lot of the parts at Mikes are listed for earlier or later bikes....is the '75 a bastard year?
-If the engine's bad, will I hurt the value by building up another non-#'s matching engine?

Lots of questions, I know...and I'll probably ask them again when I actually lay my hands on each piece or part. I still have to help Dad finish his project, put rings in my Brat bike and then tackle this one.
Give me your thoughts. Should I set things into motion to get a title and start collecting parts? Or just donate this one to the cause and keep my eye out for a better candidate?

roar · Full Member Joined: Sep 15, 2008 Posts: 54

If you like the looks of the bike I guess I wouldn't worry about whether it's a completely stock restoration or not. I would do the things to the bike to make it a dependable rider and let the chips fall where they may.

I put about a grand into my 75 and have been offered almost three times that amount, but the four months it took me to get her done won't let me sell her. It's also not all stock as I put in some fuel filters, higher output coils, home built rectifier, ect, ect.....

I bought almost all of my parts from 650central and Michael is a huge help in any questions you have about what parts will work. You can get aftermarket mufflers that will fit, or you can spend big bucks at speed and sport or maybe nw vintage cycle parts to get a nos set. I found the one muff I needed on ebay and snagged it for $140. (the other one only went for $60)

I guess what I'm getting at is that you shouldn't restore it if you're only basing your decision on value.

In my opinion anyway,
Roar

pumps

The title thing I think you know as much as me.
The key, there is a number on the gas cap and the ignition, a 4 digit number. There is a seller on ebay that has old stock keys. I got one for mine. My number was listed in his auction. Used Buy it now. Sent him the number. Key came. Works perfectly. Here is a link to one of the sellers auctions.
cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotor...A10|39%3A1

Possibly if you used some Marvel Mystery oil you could get it unstuck? There are guys on here who have unstuck motors I am sure and can give advice.

As far as getting parts, watch ebay, scour the internet, I am sure you can find your parts. That bike, I see a lot of that model. If it's not a 100% resto, so what? Make it reliable. Polish it as much as you want, I don't think that will hurt the value. As far as a non matching motor hurting the value, right now it's a parts bike, no where to go but up.
You won't find many low mileage bikes like that. You say it's a long term project, then you have time to collect parts... Wink

If you look on the parts fiche you can see what parts are shared sometimes.
I hope some of my comments help.

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

pumps wrote:

Possibly if you used some Marvel Mystery oil you could get it unstuck? There are guys on here who have unstuck motors I am sure and can give advice.

As far as getting parts, watch ebay, scour the internet, I am sure you can find your parts. That bike, I see a lot of that model. If it's not a 100% resto, so what? Make it reliable. Polish it as much as you want, I don't think that will hurt the value. As far as a non matching motor hurting the value, right now it's a parts bike, no where to go but up.
You won't find many low mileage bikes like that. You say it's a long term project, then you have time to collect parts... Wink

If you look on the parts fiche you can see what parts are shared sometimes.
I hope some of my comments help.

Ditto on that.

50/50 Diesel oil and CRC and give the head and bores a through soaking and repeat every week, then try to free it up after 3 weeks. may have to soak some more?

scotts

I've had MMO, Kroil penetrating oil and, just yesterday, a spritz of PB Blaster in the spark plug holes.
I can get it in and out of gear, but the engine won't budge. There's still fluid sitting on top of the right cylinder. It doesn't seem to be soaking through.
When I put it in gear, how much should I be able to rock the engine? Should I feel it move a couple of mm's or ???
Does the fact that it goes into gear at all mean it's most likely the rings and not the bottom end?

I haven't tried too hard to free it just yet. Like I said, this is about third in line as far as projects go. I need to take the alternator cover off and put a long handled socket bar on it and see what happens.
I may have to pull the head and strike the pistons with a 2x4 and a BFH.

weekendrider

If you have the time, let it soak, it may take awhile.
You may want to consider overfilling the crankcase with diesel to loosen/lube it while waiting for the pistons to soak/loosen.

Building for your dad. What look are you wanting? If he is OK with the stock look maybe he would want to ride the '75? It seems to be nice looking and the parts you are short do come up on ebay, you just have to wait awhile.

scotts

My Dad is building a drop seat, soft tail Brat Style bike. He has a frame to modify. We were going to use the '75 for the triple tree, forks, wheels and brakes mostly. Maybe a couple other odds and ends.
He has no problem with me keeping the '75 intact. We'll just have to find another donor or the parts he needs.

nudude53

Scotts:
The stuff you need for the brat is on ebay all the time. I've seen clean XS650B's sell for as much as $3500.00 or more. The parts from the '74 thru '77 models are virtually all the same, you should have no trouble finding them if you decide to restore, including decal sets should you repaint it.

Here's a '75 I like, but this color wasn't offered in the states.

pumps

I hope you know that all of us will try our best to help you get this old girl up and running. Smile

yamaman

Not sure what climate you've got, but if it's sunny outside, I'd leave the bike in the sun for as much as you can. Or give it some gentle artificial heat! Good luck!

scotts

The only thing about sourcing all those bits from ebay isn't the big stuff...forks, wheels, etc....it's all the little bits. Engine bolts, swing arm bolts, axles, clamps, nuts, washers, chain adjusters, etc.. I really need to find a complete bike. Or at least a rolling frame. I don't need a tank, seat , engine, any lighting or a wiring harness for his project.
Or, a member who's parting one out and could hook me up with a crate full of stuff. Otherwise, $10 shipping for a 0.99 cent bolt on ebay will add up quickly and kill me.

nudude53

If you dig deep enough you can find all of that little stuff on ebay. Or try some of the online NOS parts suppliers, hardware is pretty universal on Yamahas.

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

Often see a bunch of bolts and all that gear as a lot, some times has mounts in them, Will post when i see some

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

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Try that diesel and CRC, the CRC will get into it and the diesel will lube it,It will work. If you are patent it could take a couple of months.....When i got my TXA it was seized untill my mate and the PO pushed it out to the trailer with it in top gear.

bighamms

Scotts, nice looking bike my man. I just picked up the same year. The bike is pretty complete but not really my speed. I have a few parts that may help you out. I actually have that seat in what I would consider mint condish (by mint, i mean NO rips or tears. the gold colored yamaha name on the back is not as vibrant as I assumed it would have been in 1975). At any rate, I have some stuff. Drop me a line if you are looking for something specific.....

scotts

Bighamms, You have a PM.

TwistedLeather

I've had a few seized motors in my day and what's always worked for me was marvel mystery oil soaking on tops of the pistons and the old second gear rocking. Normally, they will break loose easier pushing backward pulling the piston down and away from it's stuck position. Trying to push up and past from the stuck position is like pushing it against a wall. I wish you good fortune.

Butch.

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

Quote::

they will break loose easier pushing backward pulling the piston down and away from it's stuck position

.

twistedleather, with a seized engine, how do you determine the direction of the travel of the pistons...........? If the crank was delivering the down stroke when seized, then pushing the bike backwards would have the pistons rising.

scotts

I was thinking the same way. I can look in the spark plug holes with a small LED flashlight I have. The left side valves are open. The right side still has penetrating fluid in the cylinder. It appears to be stuck on the down stroke.

TwistedLeather

650skull wrote:

Quote::

they will break loose easier pushing backward pulling the piston down and away from it's stuck position

.

twistedleather, with a seized engine, how do you determine the direction of the travel of the pistons...........? If the crank was delivering the down stroke when seized, then pushing the bike backwards would have the pistons rising.

With so few miles on the clock and the obviously good condition of the bike, I am gonna go out on a limb and say this motor is probably rust seized due to sitting which means it was not running when it seized. If this is indeed the case, the rust is above the pistons where it was most likely exposed to humidity. The cylinder with the open valves would be the one I would suspect most, but it could be the other. Taking a look at the position of the crank in relation to the timing mark will tell you what part of the stroke you are in and whether or not the pistons were on their way up or down when the engine was last turned off. For me, I've always had better luck breaking them loose backward in second gear. I've also use a socket on the end of the crank with a break-over bar a couple of times.

Butch.

Xumi

Took me a little while to find it, but here is a great page with some tips on unsticking a seized engine, even going so far as to use grease to put hydrolic pressure on the piston to force it loose.
(the rest of the guide is great too, especially the section on getting old bikes to run again)..

www.dansmc.com/stuck_engine.htm

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

scotts wrote:

I was thinking the same way. I can look in the spark plug holes with a small LED flashlight I have. The left side valves are open. The right side still has penetrating fluid in the cylinder. It appears to be stuck on the down stroke.

You say Valves as in plural, should only be one valve open at a time.

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

Once the seize is cracked, do not try to turn over just pull apart and even a hone may be enough with such low mileage, (depending on how rusty).

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