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xs650 > > General Conversation > > I'm just saying... you know > > Hi Barb and other sidecar folk


Hi Barb and other sidecar folk
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gordonscott
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PostPosted: June 17, 2009, 8:13 pm    Post subject: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Had to go to the p.o. to ship motorcycle parts and what better way Very Happy


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gordonscott
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PostPosted: June 17, 2009, 8:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

I'll use this post to describe my first sidecar outfit and my own experiance about owning and setting up a sidecar outfit. This is all very new to me and I'm still learning so any pro's feel free to set me strait if I wonder from the facts Wink I'll post info soon.


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nudude53
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PostPosted: June 17, 2009, 8:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

This is what I had in mind.


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nudude53
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PostPosted: June 17, 2009, 9:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

.........and for those weekend getaways at the KOA........


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Barbara
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PostPosted: June 18, 2009, 1:32 am    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Hi Guys,

Well, forgive the background....an acre of ground, give or take, and I have to park in front of the trash...sigh. But that's the rig--assuming the picture comes through. I'd love to have that VW sidecar--that's really cute!

Gotta love sidecars!

Rats--I'll have to resize the pictures--too big. Tomorrow.....it's 11:30--time to go to sleep.

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Jaelith the XS650 with sidecar
Britney the BSA
Gemini the BSA
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illie the 1980 airhead BMW
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gordonscott
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PostPosted: June 18, 2009, 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

How can you not smile looking at those pictures? creative people, gota love it!
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gordonscott
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PostPosted: June 18, 2009, 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

I’ve been on two wheels for over 30yrs and I can tell you adding a 3rd is a whole new ballgame. Talk about a crash course in basic physics Laughing You stop and the sidecar wants to keep on going, you take off and the sidecar wants to stay behind, and I won’t even get into taking right hand turns without a passenger in the car, yikes Shocked But even with the “newbie” mistakes I’ve made in setting up my first outfit I can tell this is going to be a lot of fun. It did not take me long to realize there is more to this sidecar thing then just bolting on a car, here in the states the trend seems to be we take a sidecar, bolt it to a bike and go. But over in the UK they take there sidecars a little more seriously and make the bike and sidecar compliment each other more, like with leading link front ends, heavy duty brakes, flat profile car tires (tyres in UK) and such. In the first mile I drove this thing I knew two things, #1 I did not have this setup correctly, how did I know this? The bike pulled hard and wanted to take a constant right off the road and into a tree. #2 My bike needed a lot of work to be up to the task of tugging this hack around and making it stop; the extra weight of a sidecar will show all your bikes weakness.
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gordonscott
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PostPosted: June 18, 2009, 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Brakes: with the extra weight I need a little more stoping power so I went with the old "holes in the rotor" trick. You will read a lot of opinions on whether this mod is worth the effort but I belive it is so I did. Fisrt grab a clear strait edge and mark your lines. I do this by facing the rotor down and going thru the center of the hole on one side and down the center of the brace on the other, you do this all the way around and it comes out perfect in the end, easier to show in picture then to explain ...


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5twins
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PostPosted: June 18, 2009, 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

There are some good free manuals available for download here .....

www.sidecar.com/links3.asp

They will teach you how to mount, adjust, and drive these contraptions better Smile
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gordonscott
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PostPosted: June 18, 2009, 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Aftor you have lines done you have to mark holes to be drilled, drilling needs to be done on a slow speed drill press. I did mine in a " 2/3 patern" so the entire pad gets swept as it passes over the rotor, the final holes drilled should be the same diameter as the thikness of the rotor. Take a ruler and mark where holes are to be drilled, make sure to use a center punch to mark final drilling locations ...I used three size bits and worked my way up to final size, rotors are stainless and hell on tooling so take your time and use a cutting oil for sure...


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gordonscott
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PostPosted: June 18, 2009, 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Hi 5twins, thats a great site, been lurking for a while. I went by the #'s with 1/8 leanout, 3/4 toe in, and a 8-10 lead on the sidecar wheel, found those are starting points and all outfits are different. The problems got worse with a passenger in the car but I made a swingarm that moved the Velorex shock mount location to behind the axel instead of in front of it and is much better now thanks to leverage working the way it should Very Happy (thanks Lonnie) p.s. Lonnie on that site gave me that info, he makes a kit for the Velorex and I highly recomend it for all old Velorex sidecars that carry weight, I almost bought the kit myself and would have if I didn't have the tools to make it.


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Last edited by gordonscott on June 18, 2009, 11:25 am; edited 2 times in total
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yamaman
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PostPosted: June 18, 2009, 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Hi Gordon, 5twins has a great template

www.650rider.com/index...1051&pos=1

in his gallery for drilling discs. Pretty sure there is a couple of other ones on the site to somewhere!

Whats the science behind drilling diameter equaling disc thickness? Sounds reasonable, just wondering why! Cheers

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gordonscott
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PostPosted: June 18, 2009, 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Here is the finished rotor on the bike with a new stainless brake line as well. Remember those old rubber brake lines are like sponges now, you lose a lot of stoping power in them...


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Last edited by gordonscott on June 18, 2009, 11:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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Retiredgentleman
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PostPosted: June 18, 2009, 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

I drilled my disks a few years ago, but didn't drill as many holes as you. I think its an easy way to improve the brakes.


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gordonscott
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PostPosted: June 18, 2009, 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

outstanding Very Happy I looked for something like that template before I did mine but should have looked harder.
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gordonscott
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PostPosted: June 18, 2009, 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

"Whats the science behind drilling diameter equaling disc thickness? Sounds reasonable, just wondering why!" Hi Yamaman, I don't want to tell tales out of school but think it has something to do with cracking around the holes? just something I remember being told by old timers. I was told they used to drill out the rotors because of traped gasess ( like hydroplaining on water) with the old style pads and the holes would allow gasess to escape into them. With modern pads we don't have that problem, thats why I said earlier some people don't think it worth it. So much info, so many opinions, I always go with common sense, but I'm wrong alot too LOL...
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Last edited by gordonscott on June 18, 2009, 2:47 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: June 18, 2009, 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Fork brace: I know I’m going to catch some crap for this but I don’t like running fenders! I just like the looks of bikes without them so much I’m willing to put up with the hassle of not having one, to each there own. So with that said I made my own fork brace, one that would hug the tire and be stronger too because of low profile. I used .095 7/8” dom tube and bent it on my rotary draw bender over a 4 ½ rad. I could have bought a brace but like said I don’t run a front fender and the store bought one would look awkward with no fender, it would be too high over the tire, other wise they work fine for stock setups with fenders.


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gordonscott
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PostPosted: June 18, 2009, 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

brace with drilled rotor....


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5twins
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PostPosted: June 18, 2009, 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

The explanation I heard about limiting the disc hole size to that of it's thickness has to do with surface area. More surface area means better cooling. When you drill holes in the disc, you create more surface area (the sides of the holes) as long as the hole size is the same or less than the disc thickness. Remember, you are eliminating some surface area on the front and back side where the hole now resides. Make the hole too big and you eliminate more surface area than you create on the hole sides.
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PostPosted: June 18, 2009, 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Check out the big brain on 5twins Laughing very well thought out explanation of one of the advantages of drilling rotors (cooling), I think I’m going to like it around here Wink
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Last edited by gordonscott on June 18, 2009, 2:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Barbara
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PostPosted: June 18, 2009, 1:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Hi Guys,

I haven't drilled the disc, but I have adjusted my riding somewhat--like staying in the slow lane and generally taking it easy. The other advantage my outfit has is that it is a very light one--a "sport" chair. It won't carry as much as a Velorex, but there is less torsional stress on the bike frame and front end.

I also found the generally accepted lean-out and toe-in are simply starting points, and that I had to find a compromise between empty handling and handling while carrying a passenger or a full camping load. I sort of solved that by carrying a big swage-block of iron around behind the seat when the chair is empty, so the characteristics are closer to the loaded chair.

The other thing I found is that when I try to keep up with two-wheel bikes on twisty roads, my shoulders ache for days! It's good exercise riding a combo, but I've got her set up now so that on straight roads and moderately loaded she has neutral steering, so it's not so bad touring.

Plus my granddaughters absolutely love it.....very important! Very Happy

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Jaelith the XS650 with sidecar
Britney the BSA
Gemini the BSA
Baby B. the BSA
Big John the BSA
The unnamed Triumph T-140
and the 1979 XS650....with "potential"
illie the 1980 airhead BMW
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gordonscott
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PostPosted: June 18, 2009, 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Hi Barb, I totaly agree about the #'s being a starting point and to go from there, basically when it feels right it is right. The Velorex had a poor design in the swingarm/shock mounting point and "wollows" bad in the corners with a passenger. I thought it was a bad shock but when I went to buy one from Lonnie (http://www.sidecar-industry.com/nwest/default.htm) he told me the trouble was in the design. The stock setup has the shock mount in front of the axel and should have been behind, makes perfect sense for leverage to work in your favor. I have my wife ride with me (she loves the sidecar) so with an adult in the chair I had to do some mods. Like you said Barb things change when you have weight in the car, becuase it lowers, it changes lean out and toe in. With my new swingarm and motorcycle shock in place it is much better Very Happy Also about steering, the faster you go the harder it is to turn (force needed) so with out changing rake/trail this is the nature of the beast. I have built chopper frames when I will rake the neck for the look I want but this is different, more on this subject later Wink ....


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650skull
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PostPosted: June 18, 2009, 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

gordonscott, Barbs, this would make a great vault post, the trials and learning of the different g forces and handling quirks and effects on the body, makes for interesting reading. .........love to hear more on how you have gone about this, words and pics gordonscott.....and your wealth of knowledge barbs, has not been taped into, a word, (sharpen that press) and pic's (i know you have problems with them Laughing ), would be invaluable

Have posts with templates in the vault under "Brakes -- Drum, Disc" Web Page Name

Yamaman that link won't let me through
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gordonscott
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PostPosted: June 18, 2009, 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Hi Skull, as you wish Wink I'm a newbie and this is what I'm going thru so maybe it will help someone else interested in trying a sidecar.
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