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xs650 > > Motorcycle Systems > > Engine > > Oil leak from head bolts? |
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Oil leak from head bolts?
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pumps 650Rider Supporter
Joined: May 29, 2007 Posts: 1993 Location: Kansas City, Missouri, U.S.A.- 1977 XS650 "D" Standard
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Posted: February 19, 2009, 11:54 pm Post subject: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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I've decided if I stay in the nice warm house any longer I'll go nuts. Got a box of parts from mikes that I have to put on. Looking at them won't get them on. Pulled the tank to get at the coils that I need to replace to install the pamco ignition and I have another issue to deal with besides the cold. There is a small puddle of oil on top of the head near the oil line connection on the right side under the top mounting bracket. The bolt on the line seems snug enough but the adjacent 17mm acorn nuts are not so tight. Other side has less oil but some and acorns also not that tight. Can't find my socket that size but turned them a little with the wrench. Will a socket even fit on all four? Seems awfully close quarters. I suppose I should torque all the nuts to spec in the order in the manual..somewhere I remember something about putting copper washers? on them. Looks like rubber washers on them too. I'd like to stop here and fix this before I go on to my new ignition installation. Tell me what the correct and best fix for this is.
Also shall I remove the oil line and put new banjo bolts in the line?
_________________ You don't HAVE to be crazy to run into burning buildings, but it HELPS!
On an XS you won't pass yourself on the road everyday.
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xsjohn Full Member
Joined: Jul 30, 2006 Posts: 5857 Location: North Carolina USSA
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Posted: February 20, 2009, 12:00 am Post subject: Re: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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The oil leak is probably from the oil line banjo bolt.......Anneal the copper by heating them......torque head bolts to 30 lbs.....I use 35......
xsjohn
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Retiredgentleman 650Rider Supporter
Joined: Mar 03, 2007 Posts: 2258 Location: Calgary, Alberta 1978 XS650 SE
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Posted: February 20, 2009, 12:06 am Post subject: Re: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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pumps;
The oil lines into the top of the head should have a copper washer on both sides of the connection. You might get lucky by just tightning them if they are loose. The only sure fix would be to remove them and see if the copper washers are damaged. The banjo bolts should be fine.
The outer 2 head studs on each side had the "rubberized" metal washers as stock. Recommended to me to use copper washers, which I now have and will be using shortly when I re-assemble the engine.
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pumps 650Rider Supporter
Joined: May 29, 2007 Posts: 1993 Location: Kansas City, Missouri, U.S.A.- 1977 XS650 "D" Standard
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Posted: February 20, 2009, 1:28 am Post subject: Re: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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I've found a picture on page 75 of my Clymer that shows the parts of the pipe. I can't seem to find any other info on it though. Torque the banjos?
On the outer head studs ( #'s 1,2,3,4) in the torquing sequence are you replacing the rubberized washers or putting copper washers on top of them between the rubber and the acorn nut? Will a regular socket fit on those acorns? Somewhere I remember a post about using those wobbly sockets on some of the head bolts.
xsjohn, by anneal you mean heat them so they can be reused? Red hot with a torch, cool slowly?
I noticed mike has that top end fastener kit. Looks nice and shiny! Where can I get the screws that hold the mechanical advance and points covers on and I'm thinking metric allen heads would be better that the phillips.
I'm surprised of the quality of the phone camera pics.
_________________ You don't HAVE to be crazy to run into burning buildings, but it HELPS!
On an XS you won't pass yourself on the road everyday.
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weekendrider Support Staff
Joined: Apr 20, 2007 Posts: 1284 Location: SW MO 2x83SK 79F 78E
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Posted: February 20, 2009, 1:47 am Post subject: Re: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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pumps locate a nut and bolt wholesaler in your area that will sell by the piece. I use Shamrock locally. Fastnal won't sell by the piece anymore, at least here. If you can't get them there let me know I'll hook you up.
A socket will work on the head bolts. The copper/ brass washer replace the rubberized ones.
Some have expressed concern with Mikes kit. Seems the nuts may be to shallow by abit. I think one of the Aussie posters mentioned this. I have a local source for chromed metric stuff here also so I can look if you want. Never looked myself. Too pricey.
Delivery pipe banjo torque 10mm 14-16 lbs 14mm 18-22
_________________ geocached @ N 37° 26.917', W 093 11.724, elev. 1148' |
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pumps 650Rider Supporter
Joined: May 29, 2007 Posts: 1993 Location: Kansas City, Missouri, U.S.A.- 1977 XS650 "D" Standard
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Posted: February 20, 2009, 1:50 am Post subject: Re: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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I'll look around here for a wholesale outfit.
_________________ You don't HAVE to be crazy to run into burning buildings, but it HELPS!
On an XS you won't pass yourself on the road everyday.
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thorshammer Full Member
Joined: Dec 12, 2008 Posts: 58
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Posted: February 20, 2009, 3:00 am Post subject: Re: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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Hey Xsjohn when you anneal copper do you cool quickly or slowly? I've always quenched copper to anneal it opposite for steel. Just wondered if you may have done comparison.
_________________ The dogs philosophy of life: If you can't eat it or hump it piss on it and walk away.
ine: don't put your face where you wouldn't put your fingers |
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xsjohn Full Member
Joined: Jul 30, 2006 Posts: 5857 Location: North Carolina USSA
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Posted: February 20, 2009, 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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They say it doesn't matter with copper.....high carbon steel quenching can harden it or even make it brittle ......would need to be drawing back depending the part............
1550 degrees (medium red) and drop in water for rear sprockets......then paint........hardness there would depend on the amount of carbon in the steel.....can test with a file before and after......I have hardend somewhat a stock sprocket.......
xsjohn
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pumps 650Rider Supporter
Joined: May 29, 2007 Posts: 1993 Location: Kansas City, Missouri, U.S.A.- 1977 XS650 "D" Standard
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Posted: March 3, 2009, 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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Weather has warmed a little here- 30 as I look at the thermometer. I have some time today before my jobs I have scheduled to get out and tinker on the top end. xsjohn, can I just heat these copper washers with a propane torch , let them cool, re-install them and get a seal?
_________________ You don't HAVE to be crazy to run into burning buildings, but it HELPS!
On an XS you won't pass yourself on the road everyday.
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xsjohn Full Member
Joined: Jul 30, 2006 Posts: 5857 Location: North Carolina USSA
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Posted: March 3, 2009, 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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Should work fine........at least that way you won't have to over tighten the banjos.........in a pinch I sand the little ones on the end of my finger and heat.......
xsjohn
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jayel 650Rider Supporter
Joined: Apr 16, 2006 Posts: 3417 Location: SE Iowa 1974 TX650A
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Posted: March 3, 2009, 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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xsjohn wrote: |
on the end of my finger and heat.......xsjohn |
remove from finger before heating
_________________ all it takes is time and money -- Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket? |
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pumps 650Rider Supporter
Joined: May 29, 2007 Posts: 1993 Location: Kansas City, Missouri, U.S.A.- 1977 XS650 "D" Standard
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Posted: March 6, 2009, 1:47 am Post subject: Re: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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Head and banjos torqued! Washers annealed and re-installed.. We'll see what happens.
_________________ You don't HAVE to be crazy to run into burning buildings, but it HELPS!
On an XS you won't pass yourself on the road everyday.
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pumps 650Rider Supporter
Joined: May 29, 2007 Posts: 1993 Location: Kansas City, Missouri, U.S.A.- 1977 XS650 "D" Standard
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Posted: March 19, 2009, 12:27 am Post subject: Re: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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I'm adjusting valves and am pretty sure some of my oil leaks are from tappet covers as the o rings look kind of squished. I know mike has them but I just made an order and it's already on its way. Wonder of I could find some at the hardware store? On mikes page for the o rings it lists the gaskets too. Now, I'm not supposed to have gaskets on a 77 am I. Instead of O rings?
_________________ You don't HAVE to be crazy to run into burning buildings, but it HELPS!
On an XS you won't pass yourself on the road everyday.
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pumps 650Rider Supporter
Joined: May 29, 2007 Posts: 1993 Location: Kansas City, Missouri, U.S.A.- 1977 XS650 "D" Standard
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Posted: March 22, 2009, 12:27 am Post subject: Re: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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I think I have solved my valve cover leaks with new o rings from the hardware store. I rode 50 miles today and it appears they are tight. I'll keep an eye on them but it has highlighted another seep. It "looks" like around the base of the left cylinder but its hard to tell. Get off after riding, put it on the center stand and I see it on the left crankcase cover seeping off the front or back around and down. I thought before maybe the cam chain adjuster might be leaking but now not so sure.
_________________ You don't HAVE to be crazy to run into burning buildings, but it HELPS!
On an XS you won't pass yourself on the road everyday.
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penn71911 Full Member
Joined: Feb 07, 2008 Posts: 282 Location: Baltimore, Md
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Posted: March 22, 2009, 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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Pumps... didn't see it mentioned yet... but you've got a bolt missing from that engine mount... Might cause a bit more vibration at speed... I have trouble with the rear mount bolt loosing up... I can always tell, she gets shaky-er than normal... one of these days I'll replace the locknut...
_________________ --Chris
'82 XS650 - Daily rider
'77 Honda CB750 - Recently adopted
'70 Yamaha CS3 - Saved from the junk pile... |
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pumps 650Rider Supporter
Joined: May 29, 2007 Posts: 1993 Location: Kansas City, Missouri, U.S.A.- 1977 XS650 "D" Standard
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Posted: March 22, 2009, 9:36 am Post subject: Re: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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It's missing because I was in the process of disassembly. It's back where it belongs but good eye!
_________________ You don't HAVE to be crazy to run into burning buildings, but it HELPS!
On an XS you won't pass yourself on the road everyday.
My Bikes |
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650double2 New Member
Joined: Mar 21, 2009 Posts: 2 Location: Virginia, US
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Posted: March 22, 2009, 10:27 am Post subject: Re: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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Pumps,
Rubber Seals on Outer Cylinder Bolts replaced with Copper Washers from Suzuki. Part No: 09168-10017 (Gasket 10.5 x 22 x 2.3).
Take a look here:
"http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v463/GoranXS650/XS650 Tinnis Project/Engine/?action=view¤t=2007-10-21Engine06.jpg&newest=1"
_________________ 81 650SH |
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pumps 650Rider Supporter
Joined: May 29, 2007 Posts: 1993 Location: Kansas City, Missouri, U.S.A.- 1977 XS650 "D" Standard
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Posted: March 22, 2009, 11:24 am Post subject: Re: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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So pretty, clean and shiny!. I guess that 'll go on the list, but I think my leak is on the bottom end. I'll try to get a picture when I'm home tomorrow.
_________________ You don't HAVE to be crazy to run into burning buildings, but it HELPS!
On an XS you won't pass yourself on the road everyday.
My Bikes |
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xsleo Full Member
Joined: Oct 28, 2007 Posts: 1528 Location: Earlville NY
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Posted: March 22, 2009, 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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Pumps, the leak on the bottom of the jugs maybe from the cam chain adjuster. When the adjuster gasket leaks it runs down, and around the jugs and down from there. Get it good and clean around there and ride it, checking ever little while until you spot the leak.
_________________ "You live more in five minutes on a bike than most people do in there whole life"
'75 XS650B with a 79 dual disc front end, rear disk brake, Chrysler reg, Radio Shack rect, LED tail/ brake and turn signals. |
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pumps 650Rider Supporter
Joined: May 29, 2007 Posts: 1993 Location: Kansas City, Missouri, U.S.A.- 1977 XS650 "D" Standard
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Posted: March 22, 2009, 11:51 pm Post subject: Re: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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You mean I gotta stop and get off and look? Man I'm usually having too much fun but I''ll try!
_________________ You don't HAVE to be crazy to run into burning buildings, but it HELPS!
On an XS you won't pass yourself on the road everyday.
My Bikes |
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Back to top |
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pumps 650Rider Supporter
Joined: May 29, 2007 Posts: 1993 Location: Kansas City, Missouri, U.S.A.- 1977 XS650 "D" Standard
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Posted: March 22, 2009, 11:56 pm Post subject: Re: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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650double2 wrote: |
Pumps,
Rubber Seals on Outer Cylinder Bolts replaced with Copper Washers from Suzuki. Part No: 09168-10017 (Gasket 10.5 x 22 x 2.3) |
That part number on denniskirk.com comes up as a head gasket.
_________________ You don't HAVE to be crazy to run into burning buildings, but it HELPS!
On an XS you won't pass yourself on the road everyday.
My Bikes |
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Back to top |
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xsleo Full Member
Joined: Oct 28, 2007 Posts: 1528 Location: Earlville NY
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Posted: March 23, 2009, 12:14 am Post subject: Re: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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If the dome nuts for the head are a bit shallow, can't you just add a plain washer on top of the ones on there?
_________________ "You live more in five minutes on a bike than most people do in there whole life"
'75 XS650B with a 79 dual disc front end, rear disk brake, Chrysler reg, Radio Shack rect, LED tail/ brake and turn signals. |
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yamaman Support Staff
Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 1638 Location: Perth Western Australia
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Posted: March 23, 2009, 12:40 am Post subject: Re: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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Sure, no problems with an extra washer. Best plan is probably to use conventional nuts, torque them all up up & measure the thread & put back on whatever suits!
_________________ Its not enough to have an aim in life, you have to pull the trigger! |
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650double2 New Member
Joined: Mar 21, 2009 Posts: 2 Location: Virginia, US
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Posted: March 23, 2009, 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Oil leak from head bolts? |
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pumps wrote: |
650double2 wrote: |
Pumps,
Rubber Seals on Outer Cylinder Bolts replaced with Copper Washers from Suzuki. Part No: 09168-10017 (Gasket 10.5 x 22 x 2.3) |
That part number on denniskirk.com comes up as a head gasket. |
Pumps -
from this description:
www.cmsnl.com/products...916810019/
it is part # 11 in this picture:
images.cmsnl.com/img/p...2_d553.gif
Sorry about the long link:
Page 3, part #12 on this pdf:
www.google.com/url?sa=...Hx-SyICE4g
Don't know what Dennis Kirk has for this part number....
Hope this helps.
_________________ 81 650SH |
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