performance upgrades?

oldskoolcool · Full Member Joined: Sep 08, 2007 Posts: 372

have to agree with you on that....my 81 gpz could pull away from alot of things on a straight road...cornering was interesting though.

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

grizld1 wrote:

Hey Jimmy, there's no way I can outrun an XS1100 in a serious straight-line drag--there's no replacement for displacement there! But in friendly horsing around, the bike delivered a bit of a surprise to the 1100 owner I referred to at last year's 650 Society Smoky Mountain Rendezvous. On a technical or even moderately twisty road, I'll outrun an XS11 pretty easily, but not by outpulling it.

Well, then, it comes down to a question of who's a better rider, doesn't it? And there are plenty of motorcyclists (myself included) who are incompetent road-racers and smart enough to know it. Road racing isn't motocross, but there are plenty of hairpin curves on a road-race course -- where displacement is always an advantage. That's why bikes of different weight and displacement race in different classes, isn't it? So find an XS11 owner who can handle his machine as well as you handle yours and then see who comes out on top. If you're the one who wins, you better enter that 650 in the next Isle of Man. Razz

grizld1 · Posted: April 17, 2008, 10:26 am Post subject: Re: performance upgrades?

No, it doesn't come down to riding skill alone, not at all. It does come down to weight, steering geometry, and suspension compliance, all the factors controlling how fast you can flick it over and pick it up and how fast you can get on the throttle and off the brakes. Hell, on the Tail of the Dragon a good rider on a 250 sport bike or an old BSA B50 500 single that's set up right will eat everybody's lunch, mine included, no matter how much horsepower he's giving up!

xsjohn · Posted: April 17, 2008, 11:08 am Post subject: Re: performance upgrades?

There is one factor that may play as an important role as any you guys have mentioned and can be the determining factor on who comes out on top...........NUTS......

xsjohn

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

grizld1 -- your signature line says "It ain't whatcha got, it's whatcha can get to the ground!" Judging by your last post, you're either gonna have to do away with that motto or build a different argument.

I got pulled off course myself here. My original case was that there is no substitute for multiple cylinders. My little XS11 tore up a big, 2000 cc Honda cruiser. My small engine was a four-banger; his big engine was a V-twin.

We ended up arguing in terms of displacement, which is not where I intended to go.

xsjohn · Posted: April 17, 2008, 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: performance upgrades?

Think my signature should read.......""It ain't always what you got on the road...it's how far you can get down it"

xsjohn

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

John -- How about "It ain't what you put on the road. It's how far down the road you can put it."

xsjohn · Posted: April 17, 2008, 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: performance upgrades?

THat's good......would make it ......It ain't always what you put on the road. It's how far down the road you can put it."

Just one word different.......broadens the argument like a patent.....you know how this site is......2684 members......2684 opinions.....most all being different.......that's what makes it fun.....and frustrating .......just some get out better than others......like when the cannon ball lands in the foxhole.....or when you wake up drunk and she ain't your sister......

xsjohn

santiablo · Full Member Joined: Apr 14, 2008 Posts: 98

Cooltouch- yes thank you i already have a Clymers i evan got one of those cd copys of the shop manual wich suprisingly atualy seamed to have some good stuff in it and i am working on geing it runing i have fixed a few things on her and am working on the rest. so far as i know theres nothing wrong with her that some of u guys that know what your doing couldent fix in afew hrs or atleast an afternoon but for me who has no idea what im doin, itl take awhile!

as far as the extra cilender thing all the ones i have found are all shaft driven would realy rather stick to chain and besides the triumph i much perefer the look of the xs to any thing in its class
this is the bike im planing to teach my sister and gf to ride on and then it will eather be sold (cus im always broke) or ill get to play with it more!! yah!! if so im not dumb enogh to think im guna whip a suped up monte carlo but id at least like to make the guy think "damn i can still see the headlight on that pos back there"

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

John -- Let's try for better balance: "It ain't what you can put on the road. It's how far down the road you can put it."

grizld1 · Posted: April 18, 2008, 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: performance upgrades?

Guess that old proverb was before your time. What it means is that the only power that counts is what the rider can apply to the particular surface he's riding on, which was exactly my point.

Checked out power specs on the XS11--peak of around 75 hp at 8K. That's pretty close to stock output of a Suzuki SV650 (my other ride) or Kaw Ninja 650, both 90* V-twins packing a lot less weight. Sure, modern 4's develop more peak power than modern twins; but on tight technical tracks the SV has proved highly competitive against them, largely because its broader power band and its handling characteristics give an edge under conditions where there aren't long straights where the 4-bangers' power advantage can be used. The question's not just if a given bike is fast, but where its suspension and power delivery allow it to be fast. What's faster, a Husquevarna 610 single or a Honda Rune? Depends on whether you're on a motocross track or a drag strip.

Santiablo, you might consider getting the ladies trained with the bike in stock form while you think about whether or not to keep it. The cost of mods won't usually be recovered if you sell.

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

grizld1 -- I'm an old guy, too. I can remember all the way back to when XS650's used to beat XS1100's. You know when it was that I'm talking about, too, right? Back when all those little pink pigs were flying around on gossamer wings and Dumbo was still a Harley hogger.

As for "technical tracks" -- Hell! I can drop one foot and burn donuts on dirt with my 650. I could do that with my 1100, too, but I couldn't do it as quickly or as many times because the big hog was heavy and I was afraid of droppin' it on myself. So I guess my 650 won the donut burnin' heat -- but I never kidded myself that it was faster than the 1100.

I remember when I was a kid my little brother had slot cars. I bet he could beat your 650 with one of those little slot cars, too -- if you were dumb enough to race him on a slot-car track.

santiablo · Full Member Joined: Apr 14, 2008 Posts: 98

ouch that slot-car thing was mean!! lol

xsjohn · Posted: April 18, 2008, 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: performance upgrades?

Hey you guys beating up on Griz....... if you want to give him a run you better have all your s*** in a stack........

xsjohn

grizld1 · Posted: April 18, 2008, 10:16 pm Post subject: Re: performance upgrades?

I'll be in Townsend, TN at the Tally-Ho Inn Sept. 20. You are cordially invited to put your motor where your mouth is. That's all I have to say.

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

grizld1 -- I won't be in Townsend, TN at the Tally-Ho Inn Sept. 20. I no longer own an XS1100. I sold mine three years ago. I never claimed to be a hot-shot rider. In fact I said exactly the opposite of myself. Nor did I ever cast any aspersions at your riding skills, either. I just said that your 650 won't beat an 1100. It won't. Live with it. That's all I have to say.

Cooltouch · Posted: April 19, 2008, 12:12 am Post subject: Re: performance upgrades?

jimmythetrucker wrote:

I just said that your 650 won't beat an 1100. It won't. Live with it. That's all I have to say.

In all types of racing venues? How about a flat track? Or a small, tight course, where the 1100 can't take advantage of its horsepower?

This whole back-and-forth reminds me of how thoroughly Porsche spanked the more powerful formula cars back in the 50s and how Lotus did the same thing scarcely a decade later.

Best,

ichael

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

Cooltouch, this was my original statement --

jimmythetrucker wrote:

There is no substitute for multiple cylinders. Take my old XS11, for example: I weigh 275 lbs. The guy on the 2000 cc big-twin Honda must have weighed 170 or 180 lbs. His was tuned perfectly. Mine was tuned kinda sorta. A 10 mph rolling start (I don't like to buy tires) and by the time I got to the top of third gear I could barely see that big new Honda back there behind my 25-year-old eleven. Talk about 12.5 seconds and 106 in the quarter on a stock XS650 (I don't believe it, and I rode one for many years), an XS11 will cruise at 110 mph all day long if you got the nerve to ride it that fast, that far. The 650 is gasping for air at that speed and will probably shake itself to pieces if you hold it there -- and I won't even discuss how it will handle at that speed. Nobody likes a 650 more than I do, people, but let's get real. If what I said actually hurts you, just shake it off.

There's no mention of any "special" considerations there. But right away grizld1 starts hammering on me with "technical tracks" and in other ways trying to rig the deal, make it, as you say, "a small, tight course, where the big eleven can't take advantage of its horsepower." So why not just keep our race on an ordinary, two-lane highway and force both bikes to cope with conditions with which every street racer has to cope -- except tell the guy on the 1100 that he has to run with a flat tire on his rear wheel? It would amount to the same thing you're pleading for.

The eleven is faster and more powerful. That was my original statement and that's the fact. You'll have to live with it whether you like it or not, because arguing won't change it.

Shannon60 · Posted: April 19, 2008, 7:56 am Post subject: Re: performance upgrades?

I think you gys should take that race that will never happen anyway to the dirt? how about a half mile? and see how the big turd handles in a corner with an outside wall or see how big the talk is then? Well its all in fun, lol

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

Shannon60 -- See how your dirt bike performs on a slot-car track? It amounts to the same thing you're asking of the XS11. But does the fact that your dirt bike would lose in a race against a slot car mean that the slot car is faster and more powerful than your dirt bike? I said the XS11 is faster and more powerful than the XS650. It is.

xsjohn · Posted: April 19, 2008, 8:26 am Post subject: Re: performance upgrades?

Been following this but I have much bigger problems.....now that little devil next door with the hopped up 150 cc or so chineese moped has hopped it up even more and is looking over here.....was supposed to race him to the bridge with me starting backwards........now the little devil has put pipes on that thing.....thought it was a chain saw.....a big one too......I'm in deep dodo.....

Was thinking I could put some grease on the back tire for the turn around burnout and hoping that would clear the grease so I could then chase the little devil down before he makes the bridge......can't think of a better plan yet....and all this is untested.......

xsjohn

jayel · Posted: April 19, 2008, 8:45 am Post subject: Re: performance upgrades?

can't rememer the movies name, but this guy is about to get into a fight with a much bigger guy, "whoa, whoa, whoa", he says "we have to set the rules" "what rules?' the other guy asks "well no eye pokes" pokes guy in the eyes, "no ear slaps", slaps guys ears, "and none of this either" drop-kicking guy in the ummh, the basic message here john is find a way to cheat, got a extra rear wheel/tire with a big sprocket?

xsjohn · Posted: April 19, 2008, 8:59 am Post subject: Re: performance upgrades?

Makes since......but what if he's put a bigger motor in it.......then what....cheating doesn't always get you out of every mess you get into...........but it's worth considering......

AND I am 61 now ....what if this pig gets out from under me....where will I be then.....I'll have to move......

Idea....Maybe I could throw the fairing on the RT1.....since the little devil has begun to cheat on me maybe he wouldn't notice.....

xsjohn

Shannon60 · Posted: April 19, 2008, 10:19 am Post subject: Re: performance upgrades?

very true and the 650's are over weight and under powered so why even talk about racing them against one another? I beat sportster 12's and 883's on a weekly basis with a 650 not a kitted 750 on the dirt its all about traction and I'm sure on a mile I would have my ass handed to me just as it is by the guy racing the cb360 on the clubs eighth mile

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