Intake oilers and Smoothing out the Engine

xsjohn · Last edited by xsjohn on February 24, 2009, 10:54 am; edited 14 times in total

The cam is spinning forward and the oil is being slung up front leaving the intakes in the back with a lot less oil and this I think is causing the intakes to be noisy and crapping out the valve tips....added oilers to the intakes.....pretty easy to change the jets in the covers and they come off for adjusting valves pretty easy......used older bit longer mikuni 150 MJ's and and tapped them and placed a polot jet inside it ......the aperatur in the polit I used a .022 thousands aperature....these older Jets are a bit longer and hang out over the large spring retaining washer...........just tapped them to the end of banjo bolts taken from another oiler tube......later I tapped the jet out and used a pilot jet inside of it (seel later in this post)....bit of tricky work and the position of the banjo bolt is pretty critical .....the elephant feet with this oil method should make the valve tips and adjustors last .....maybe even with the stock adjusters......the exhaust valves are getting plenty of oil so they last......

....I drilled and tapped the end of the banjo bolt and thredded it in.....need the older mikuni jets (like enduro jets in the 70's that were a bit longer and it hangs over the big spring washer....just runs on it........

On the nut inside the cap use like some plastic that comes on packaging to make another gasket in there that is not too thick.....so it won't waste oil by leaking there.

Also I drilled a hole in the side of the nut which is a head bolt sliced and flattened a piece of drill stock and hammered it in so it sticks out maybe 1/4 inch...the peg hits the cover on the side.....this keeps the nut inside from spinning when when you tighten the banjo bolt from the outside and prevents leaks cause you can get the banjo real tight...

On the rubber hose connections I roughted up the metal and used heavy copper wire around the rubber tubbing a few times and twisted the two ends of the wiire.... makes a good tight fit so I didn't have to use a ugly clamp for the connectons.......

Heat the oil tube while it is on the engine in the front and tweek it out a bit so the connections will clear the head........no heat it can break the copper connection.....the head of the oil tube where you drill and tap is copper and plenty thick for drilling and tapping.........

For the connection to the top ofthe existing oil tube used long amal jets and drilled them out and smoothed the edges by putting a drill bit throuh it and spinnig it on the grinder until it would be the right size........largest hole inthis jet is ok...it's just to transfer the oil not to hamper it....

NOW....for the tricky part....the original restrictor for the top end is at the base of the oil tube......is .116 thousands...When I mounted the top end cooler I drilled it out like .200 thou or more .....I fashioned a restrictor and put it above the top end cooler and used .125 thou (1/8) drill because the cooler would slow the flow because of the added length of the tubes and the cooler.......now with the addition of the oilers I used a 9/64" (.140) for the main restrictor above the cooler....then the .025 restrictors at each intake valve.....

Without a cooler I would still use a 9/64 (.140) restrictor at the base of the oil tube when using the oilers.......

Will update

John Underwood

xsjohn · Posted: November 10, 2007, 1:06 am Post subject: Re: OILING INTAKE VALVES

Here is how I connected to the oil tube..........found some old Amal main jets and trimmed them downand tapped the top of the oil tube andnalso epoxied them in......this way the cover can be removed easily..

Inside the cover I used some older mikuni main jets in the covers....they are a bit longer and let the oil rkun on to the spring retainer plate which will spatter to the valve tips as the valve goes up and down..........

Was a bit dissapointed that it wouldn't spray but the oil will spatter off the large valve spring retainer to the valve adjuster and valve tip........

John Uderwood

Jack · Full Member Joined: Mar 15, 2005 Posts: 411

I would re -route the lines to a lower elevation to shorten the oil path,run the lines closer to top engine mounting bolts and just zip tie them. May need ahigh volume oil pump for spray effect or reduce the jetting.........Jack

xsjohn · Posted: November 10, 2007, 2:04 am Post subject: Re: OILING INTAKE VALVES

Found that just a reral small stream on the large washer that holds the valve spring works good.........the aperture in the pilot jet should be exactly .022..... thousands...tried a lot of different sizes.....some waste oil others wont flow...took caliper to music store for .022 plain steel guitar string.....to bore the exact hole....some .024 guitar strings sizes are really .022....ect

Bored a older enduro jet and tapped in a pilot jet..........easier to get the hole right than trying to close a main jet........had to shorten the pilot stem and slightly narrow it so it would fit inside the main jet..........

John

xsleo · Posted: November 10, 2007, 2:21 am Post subject: Re: OILING INTAKE VALVES

i'm not sure how you could drive it, could a power steering pump off a car work? draw the oil from off one of the drain plugs, pump it the intake valve injector, use a tee fitting in line with a shut off to control flow and pressure by bleeding off oil and returning to the crankcase, the way fuel pressure is controled on a fuel injected car. it sounds like you have a good start on this system.

xsjohn · Posted: November 10, 2007, 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: OILING INTAKE VALVES

All that is needed is a bit more oil there.......as long as it gets on the valve retainer washer it will get in there to lube the valve tip and adjustor because of the valve raising and lowering so quickly splatering the oil across everything there...............then also add the elephant feet to the intakes when the engine is down.....the combination of both should make the adjustor and valve tip erosion and valve noise moot........hopefully.......I have only had a chance to put a couple of hundred miles on the new oiling system and it seems to be quieter and run along better.......too cold to go on and on like in the summer.....freezing my ass......being so scrany and all....

Removing that dam or notching it across the intake side of the head so the cam can sling some more oil rearward might be an good answer too........anyone tried that....BUT WHAT IF TOO MUCH OIL SLINGING AROUND IN THE BACK CAUSING A HEAVEY MIST LIKE IT DOES IN THE FRONT ----- GETS INTO THE BREATHER AND OUT TO THE AIR CLEANER......THAT WOULD BE A BUMMER FOR SURE........

The cam is on the down swing towards the back so less would be slung rearward and from a lower angle and it has already slung most of the oil off forward .........

John

royfisk · Posted: November 10, 2007, 9:28 pm Post subject: Re: OILING INTAKE VALVES

WRONG
I told you john I was on this for along time now just havent had the time to tinker with it. Glad to see other people with building knowledge are watching this too, tells me that they have seen it too. Mayby if this works good John and you package hits that are eye appealing which you are on a good start there , all my engines may be wearing these. So dont think others are not paying attention. My thoughts right now are on oil return from the spring pocket, do you suppose the will be enough there to not fill the pocket and find its way down the valve? Jack good to see your still with us. havent heard from you in awhile, How did the new valve configuration work?

xsjohn · Posted: November 10, 2007, 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: OILING INTAKE VALVES

Roy....Maybe just getting that Damn Dam out of there may do it....just a tiny bit more oil back there with some elephant feet and walk away.......

The 1/2 inch or so oil return hole goes right down to between the chlinders so filling the pocket would be difficult or impossible with just a dribble.....

the problem with this is it takes so long to find out...but if the intake noise disapates by doing this with slightly more clearances the problem may be moot.....with my latest escapade I can notice less intake noise......but if it can be done more simply that would be cool too.......shoot all we can do is dick it up.....not like we havn't done that before........

JUST THOUGHT....if the dam was removed and ....IF TO MUCH OIL MIST IS IN THE BACK LIKE IT IS IN THE FRONT IT MAY END UP GETTING SUCKED INTO THE AIR FILTER VIA THE BREATHER.......MAYBE ANOTHER CATCH22.....SO MAYBE the ADD ON OILER IS REALLY THE ANSWER AFTER ALL----AND DOING IT SPARINGLY...nothing like oil dripping out of the breather to foul the day.......

Only used a .022 thousands feed hole ...just a bit more than a drip.....that is realy allthat is needed and it wont rob oil fro other places.......

John

xsjohn · Posted: December 14, 2007, 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: OILING INTAKE VALVES

Reset valves on my 80 back to .004........not a sound....tried .006 and you could hear them then........book says .0025.....starting it cold it has to warm up too long before it will idol right.........couldn't stand the racket before the oiler at .004......now .004 is stone quiet..........

If anyone is thinking about this which I am sure no one is.....I would have come in from the top with ...see below center........and use pilot jets at .022 thou...

John

royfisk · Posted: December 14, 2007, 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: OILING INTAKE VALVES

john this is good stuff, I wouldnt go wild on opening your valves to much, youll lose on lift and duration. 4 thousdants would be where i stayed max. the tighter the lash the more the lift, and the longer the valve stays open, I think you already know this but just saying my piece.

xsjohn · Posted: December 14, 2007, 10:05 pm Post subject: Re: OILING INTAKE VALVES

Read you.....just opened the intakes to see if they would tick at .006....and they do..........I have checked the exhausts numerous times hot and they are still .006.......don't spose it would hurt to come down a bit on them do you....like a loose .004 hot..........

John

royfisk · Posted: December 14, 2007, 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: OILING INTAKE VALVES

probably not but watch your pipes for color and listen for exhaust noise,

xsjohn · Posted: December 14, 2007, 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: OILING INTAKE VALVES

Was just thinking the cam may swing smoother with all valves simular.....maybe I'm just nit picking as usual............

John

royfisk · Posted: December 14, 2007, 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: OILING INTAKE VALVES

yea if the exhaust is to tight the pipes will be blue/yellow hot and pop some.

xsjohn · Posted: December 14, 2007, 10:28 pm Post subject: Re: OILING INTAKE VALVES

With the intake oiler I now runthe exhaust at .006 and the intake at .005......this advances the intake timeing a bit and gives it more low end pulling power and more smoothness at cruise........

John

xsjohn · Posted: July 10, 2008, 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: OILING INTAKE VALVES

Here's one I bet noboby thought of.......Raised the head a bit.......
xsjohn

Retiredgentleman

Interesting John, let us know how it works after some miles put on.

Joseph · Full Member Joined: May 22, 2007 Posts: 767 Location: NY

John I have never opend my eingine, so that front guide hangs on the 2 front bolts and tightens against those holow nut sleve looking things? By adding washers to the nuts that the bolts go through move the whoe unit forward? Do I have the concept right?l

xsjohn · Last edited by xsjohn on August 8, 2008, 8:08 am; edited 2 times in total

Washers move it forward....if the old one looks like it was resting to hard on the top then a thin .010 washer or something may align it properly......
The way I look at it ........if it doesn't hurt anything moving it out

xsjohn

Shannon60

I dont think that is going to advance your cam much if at all. half a tooth is where the differance really is and that would be extreme pressure on that guide, which i have seen thm installed upside down and they dont last long at all, i believe even one of the available service manuals shows to install it incorrectly, but anyway these things are all about learning and trying something differant it is an old motor and bullet proof at that and parts are more than plentifull, but if you want me to send you a cam John just let me know

xsjohn · Last edited by xsjohn on September 9, 2008, 5:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

Shannon....Think you are right about the cam advance being minimal..........thanks for the offer on the cam.....will try that .......me I don't spin this thing so the extra bottom torque is always appreciated....

xsjohn

Joseph · Full Member Joined: May 22, 2007 Posts: 767 Location: NY

wich direction is the chain coming on the front guid down or up. In other words does the cam and chain spin in same direction as drive sproket

xsjohn

It's going down the front...........the xs650 spins forward.......the xs1100 spins backwards .......xsjohn

xsjohn · Last edited by xsjohn on February 24, 2009, 12:12 pm; edited 14 times in total

2 headgaskets...
004 intakes .006 exhaust

xsjohn

ost guys are all strung out on the more more more thing...that's too bad...I tried the Falacon balance and was not impressed....idoled smooth but still vibrated like heck on the expressway....I have always disliked the vibration, rastyness, engine noises and the heat generated from these things in the summer....and I ride the expresswaqy quite a bit....have been clocking over 10,000 a year.....68 thou now...killed more than 2 birds with one stone and spent about nothing.........the thing runs like a car now .......take it for what it's worth but it works....knocks the vibes in half and makes it run like an engine should.....rasty is gone....revs wonderful and when it's idoling in a croud people say ...that really sounds nice......like an air pump which it is.......instead a can of marbles..............kicks easier too....

Here is how I did it...........after studying VW builds and compression ratios in some detail........

2 head gaskets bonded in between…… raising the head .040-.045 thousands lowers compression from 150 to 135….. ….it also puts the good useable cam chain back to original adjustments…..and takes a bit of chain pressure off the front guide………no new chain though is the only drawback but I have a box full of slightly stretched ones.......and collect them as people throw away chains that are only an 1/8" longer........goodies for free.......

I built a jig to see how many degrees the extra deck height was effecting the valve timing....securing the chain and then placing the gasket under the chain wheel....found it to be 2 to 2 1/2 degrees (advanced when raised 40-45 thou)...these things are already advanced to the wall....to put the cam back to stock position with the raised head....FIRST I marked it where the cam is pressed on the chain wheel....then I moved the cam clockwise 20-25 thousands (retard) when looking at the notched side of the cam…..”have” to move the cam or you will experience artificial leanness from too much advance....has to do with the intake closing event….closes to soon and the cylinder won’t fill completely....(found that out the hard way)....if you play with this you will "have" to do that also.......easy to push the chain wheel on and off the cam with a 8” piece of heavy muffler pipe that fits on the chain wheel and cut cleanly with a pipe cutter and using a hydraulic press........

Suppose a 1mm laser cut base plate would work good also...and using 1 base gasket and bond on the other side to the barrel.........compression went from 8.7 to 8.0 and the PSI went from 150 to 135.....lost just a tiny bit on the high end but gained useable revs down low....good trade off for me.....revs without the tension or harshness....and runs smooth as a top with virtually no engine noises and way less vibration…..still pulls tall 18/29 gears on the expressway easily and gets 52-55 or so to the gallon and sometimes 60........used stock main jets and using autolite 64 (BP6ES)......the engine sounds like a watch....and pulls off from 1800 rpm like it should......after 65 thou on the stock compression I will never go back.....and I bet the engine will last way longer.........and we will see..............

xsjohn

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