My 80 XS650 Project - First Motorcycle - Period

bigjimmyw13 · Posted: December 1, 2009, 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: My 80 XS650 Project

Thanks Srinath, I grew up on a farm and bought Roller chains all the time and the stock chain just looked like a "50" chain to me. I figured there must be some sort of diff if there is like an $80 diff from the Mikes chains and the 50 roller chain.

Srinath · Posted: December 1, 2009, 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: My 80 XS650 Project

Yea ... $80 ... RIGHT ... The packing is much much prettier. In fact I put the packing on my art shelf after I buy stuff from the moto boutique.

BTW the biggest sacrilege IMHO is the bloody 520 chain.
Its the same as 530 (or a 50 for us grease monkeys) except its 1/4 inch wide instead of 3/8th. wears out like it was made of cheese. Industrial spec items are made for so many cycles of use. Like a chain is supposed to last 10,000 hours of use at this much speed etc etc etc. They have been for centuries designed and re designed ... there is a whole damn engineering spec book on themm, much like I beams and PBR panels etc etc ... take somehting that is refined so much, change some sheiete around and call it a motorcycle part ... costs 10 X and craps out in 1/10 the time. Garbage.
Lube it, clean it (diesel soak/slosh works wonders) and run it.

Cool.
Srinath.

Srinath · Posted: December 1, 2009, 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: My 80 XS650 Project

Also as much as mikesxs is the backbone for the XS, I have found their $$ on the generic stuff (crank bearings are one fleeting example) really really high.
No one makes bearings just for an "XS650" All bearings are made in quantity, somewhere in the 100's of millions per year. All of them.

Wind turbines have bearings that are the size of a car tire. One place ordered 6000 of them apparently, and 2 companies make them, 1 in china and 1 in germany, and they are capable of producing somewhere in the neighborhood of 150,000 a year between them. The waiting list was so long that they took 18 months for supplying the 6000.

So why does a crank bearing cost 90 bucks. Why do cam bearings etc etc ... never mind I am planning on pulling the bloody thing apart, measuring them and converting it to a number like 6303. So you can buy it in africa and get the same bearing. 10-20 bucks for a bearing is normal where I come from. Industrial parts are to be bought from a place that sells industrial supplies. Never buy a radio from a car dealer is what the old saying is right.

Cool.
Srinath.

Mikesxs · Full Member Joined: Feb 06, 2007 Posts: 134 Location: FL

If you guys can buy OEM Yamaha (Koyo) crank bearings cheap , I want some also. Yamaha makes thousands of oddball parts that there is no other source for and are different enough that nothing else interchanges.
I know the XS is old & primitive but all this talk of using industrial/tractor parts etc. is balony. About 500,000 of these were made and someone would have a substitute out there if it was available. Koyo is owned by Toyota who also controls/owns Yamaha and the whole supplier group is linked to supply the current demand and they don't give a hoot about keeping anything going if they don't have a current use for any part.
The crank drive end bearing HAS been discontinued and the others are next. I have ordered new tooling and production from another bearing company but after 18 months they still aren't in sight ! Dream On.

Mike Lalonde Mikes XS

xsjohn · Posted: December 1, 2009, 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: My 80 XS650 Project

No R/S main bearings available....not good..... hop up and tuning wanabees better look out.....and even factory advance and compression.....or even a flake of metal runs through there and is caught by one of the balls....or over rev .......toast...........

smooth is where it is at.........for sure I learned that one.......everything was wrong with the factory setup.....timing to advanced......too much compression and carburation was totally epa hosed lean (by some gov't suit and tie idiot that pre decided the mixes for big brother) on my 80 when I got it at 10K...hosed..and it wasn't the PO because it was at factory settings...........which "all" suck for any duration like all of them are.............it was a totally rasty vibrating chain slapping hot running geared too low piece of sh#t......not now though... Laughing

......if only knew what you are going to go throught before you get to 75K..........ah shut up john...didn't even show you the trashed intake valve tips.......or the exploded 5th gear that cost the forks and the trans from all that rasty crap.......ah what would I know

xsjohn

bigjimmyw13 · Posted: December 3, 2009, 12:59 am Post subject: Re: My 80 XS650 Project

Hmm yeah I didn't say anything about the crank bearings.. All I was saying was that the stock chain looks like a "50" chain to me. Was wondering if there was any reason I wouldn't be able to use one. If the thing doesn't work out so be it. I have spent a lot of money with Mikes so I in no way was knocking shopping with Mike. Mikes shop is undoubtedly the backbone of the XS and I understand he runs a business not a charity. I am undoubtedly a patron of Mikes and now I'm just waiting on the 750 kit to become back in stock; then I'll pick up the kit and a new cam.

xsjohn · Posted: December 3, 2009, 1:08 am Post subject: Re: My 80 XS650 Project

Some motorcycle chains are listed as #50 most aren't.......and industrial chain listed as 50 can break and is generally much weaker ......maybe trashing the engine and the rider........sorry about the long post on bearings......I am constantly waisting my breath on that subject......and why.......

xsjohn

yamaman · Posted: December 3, 2009, 11:39 am Post subject: Re: My 80 XS650 Project

Mike, can you please explain what the difference is between a specific crank bearing & any other.

The bearing in question B6306C3 is widely available as a sealed bearing (can the seals be removed?) The "B" I'm guessing is for ball?
The C3 indicates it is a normal bearing, ie if it's not mentioned on the part#, then it's either C2 or C3.

I guess if we end up with no bearings, someone will end up trying it! Cheers

yamaman · Posted: December 3, 2009, 11:52 am Post subject: Re: My 80 XS650 Project

I found this listing, 6306 available in C3

bearingsdirect.com/sto...tail&p=234

Any reason it wouldn't work?

xsjohn · Posted: December 3, 2009, 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: My 80 XS650 Project

More useless information till you need it....... Laughing

DG3078AN-9 KOYO (stock bearing)
OD 78mm
ID 30mm
Width 19mm

6306
OD 72mm
ID 30mm
Width 19mm

Axial and radial supports are on the stock bearing .....c-clip and the alignment pin in the cases....stock R/S bearing stabilizes the crank......the other 3 rollers just float.......

Could bet that before it's over more will be asking how to make it run longer and smoother instead of the typical more more more thing.......... just a guess you know....well maybe no..... Laughing

Will keep looking though.....

xsjohn

bigjimmyw13 · Posted: December 3, 2009, 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: My 80 XS650 Project

Anyone have a metric tap/die set I can borrow? I need longer front motor mount bolts and it seems like I pretty much need to have them made for $75 a piece or buy 2 bottom motor mount bolts and add more thread to it.

yamaman · Posted: December 3, 2009, 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: My 80 XS650 Project

Thanks John, was way off there then!

xsjohn · Posted: December 3, 2009, 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: My 80 XS650 Project

That extra thick outside race will be the huckelberry.........go figure.....custom made for this application looks like.....other 3 goodby soon...?..xsjohn

Joseph · Full Member Joined: May 22, 2007 Posts: 767 Location: NY

Quote::

I need longer front motor mount bolts

Id do some more searching. I needed ones a bit longer due to forward pegs and I got one at Lowes or True value, I think lowes. It just makes it but there were longer ones. Worse case you can use threaded rod which is what the po had due to crash bars required longer mount bolts also.

bigjimmyw13 · Posted: December 3, 2009, 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: My 80 XS650 Project

I looked at true, lowes, home depot and even ordered some from a local specialty place; bastards took my order for 250mm length and gave me 240mm length and told me they cant get 250mm after I paid for the order. I can find like grade 5 3/8" ones, but I would prefer to use m10 10.9 bolts. Those seem to be impossible to find though.

xsjohn · Posted: December 3, 2009, 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: My 80 XS650 Project

Cut in half and weld rod in between for correct length.........

bigjimmyw13 · Posted: December 3, 2009, 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: My 80 XS650 Project

You know John. that actually never occurred to me as an option. Even though it should've. I mean most of the load bearing portion of the bolts is on the ends. I'm going to look into trying to find the bottom bolt cheaply first and then that may have to be the option. I have a friend making me some Forward control brackets to clear my exhaust right now so I have to wait anyway.

P.S. What does the "7" mean on the top of the front motor mount bolts?

bigjimmyw13 · Posted: December 4, 2009, 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: My 80 XS650 Project

Found the bolts from some place mike referred me to. So I'm not going to sweat about it anymore. These should be perf for what I need them for.

Anyone have any suggestions on how to set up the forward control for the rear drum brake?

bigjimmyw13 · Posted: December 9, 2009, 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: My 80 XS650 Project

New pics!

bigjimmyw13 · Posted: December 9, 2009, 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: My 80 XS650 Project

More pics!

In light of the amount of times I messaged MRRIGGS over on the garage forum about the Perm Magnet Alt conversion I figured I'd order his stator plate. So I'm waiting on it now.

highspeedhamish · Full Member Joined: Jun 25, 2009 Posts: 62

Are you guys looking for this bearing?

yamaman

Well maybe, what are the details of it? Does it replace the crank r/s bearing?

Yes please post details, how, why, where, what, cost!

highspeedhamish · Full Member Joined: Jun 25, 2009 Posts: 62

Not sure of the OD/ID of this bearing, I will be rebuilding my engine in the winter so I will find out. I hope the one thats in there now is useable as Yamaha has screwed us with discontinuing the OEM one..

I would have to get the locating pin hole machined in and thanks to XSJohn I know the outer race is thinner so who knows. I will get the bearing measured hopefully this weekend.

Uploaded some more pics of it.

xsjohn

6307...........the outside is going to be too small.....72mm......xsjohn

simplybearings.co.uk/s...ts_id=6012

Unless mike can come through a new thinking on how to set these engines up for longivity will be coming soon..........now where have I heard that........ Laughing

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Yamaha xs650