Take Care

yamaman · Posted: October 24, 2009, 5:01 am Post subject: Take Care

On the local news the other day, as is too often the case, there was a report of a motorcycle fatality.

The rider had pulled over to the side of the road & was seen checking his bike, apparently trying to see what was wrong.

Then the bike went up in flames incinerating the rider!

Bloody sad story, to go like that! But can serve as a warning, I'm sure we've all spilt a bit of fuel over ourselves over the years. A hot exhaust, or an errant spark, or whatever it was that set the fire off, can only be a degree away sometimes!

So if you've got any kind of fuel problem, please get it seen to sooner, rather than later!

RIP digger!

BigGeorge · Full Member Joined: Apr 13, 2008 Posts: 267

Its not only motorcycles. A few years back a neighbor was refuling his push type lawn mower that had run out of gas. Spilled a little on the mower deck. Pulled the cord to restart it and it exploded killing him. Kind of a freak accident but it can and does happen. I've seen guys refill their bikes at a gas station and spill fuel all down their tank onto the hot engine and exhaust then just start up and drive away as if nothing happened. I'm surprised ther aren't alot more accidents involving spilled or leaking fuel... BG

xsjohn · Posted: October 24, 2009, 11:41 am Post subject: Re: Take Care

Solid custom mounted gas tanks on the vibrating XS.......(no rubber).......seems to me just asking for it.........

xsjohn

Joseph · Full Member Joined: May 22, 2007 Posts: 767 Location: NY

good heads up yaman

Quote::

refuling his push type lawn mower that had run out of gas. Spilled a little on the mower deck. Pulled the cord to restart it and it exploded killing him.

I had no idea that 1/2 galon or so af gas in the small tank of a push mower was enough to cause a deadly explosion. Obviously I knew it could explode and cause injury but to be deadly. I know I will be that much more carefull.

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

Its the near empty tanks that cause the worst explosion, Seen a car that had broken down and been sitting on the side of the road for years, and not supposed to have any gas left in the tank,get get blown 20 meters from its original spot after a grass fire went through.

From the Hurt report by Harry Hurt

14. Fuel system leaks and spills were present in 62% of the motorcycle accidents in the post-crash phase. This represents an undue hazard for fire.

here is a link to the whole report 650wiki.org/index.php/...arry_Hurt) What category are you in and what are your chances of having an accident. More or less.

Ride Safe Smile

Barbara · Posted: October 24, 2009, 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Take Care

Hi Guys,

Fire used to bother me a lot when I had my Interstate Norton. That big 6 gallon tank was fiberglass and I used to picture the bike (and me) both sliding down the road, sparks flying and gas spraying from a disintegrating gas tank.

Never happened, but I don't miss that plastic tank. Of course, the MkIII BSA Spitfire tank on my cafe B44 Victor is also plastic.....I guess the only answer is to be careful.

Very, very careful...... Exclamation

What a horrible way to go...

ttmaniac · Full Member Joined: Dec 22, 2006 Posts: 468

I dunno, in case of a crash, just put your boot underneath your ass and light a cigarette on the flames while you ride your heel to a stop.

gggGary · Full Member Joined: Jan 07, 2009 Posts: 114

On my KZ1300 if I would open the gas cap after a ride on a hot day the gas would be boiling merrily away. Scary.
Used to use a torch and compressed air to pop out tank dents. Got the torch a little close to the open cap and the thing shot out about 3' of flame for about 4, 5 seconds and then........... went out. whew!

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

gggGary wrote:

Used to use a torch and compressed air to pop out tank dents. Got the torch a little close to the open cap and the thing shot out about 3' of flame for about 4, 5 seconds and then........... went out. whew!

whew. Do you still have your eyebrows Laughing

gggGary · Full Member Joined: Jan 07, 2009 Posts: 114

long time ago, they grew back. Had to toss the BVDs though. My survival thus for can only logically be ascribed to accident.

pamcopete · Posted: October 25, 2009, 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Take Care

Well, when I had my wreck and was lying on the road with my bike on its side slightly uphill, the gas in the carbs came flowing my way but never made it and the vacuum shutoff did its job and kept the rest of the fuel in the tank from heading my way. That's why I like vacuum petcocks.

The other issue is the fact that the gas tank on an XS650 is floating on rubber mounts and has no metal to metal contact with the frame or grounding strap to dissipate static electricity, and yet we see people filling up their tank at the gas station without first dissipating the static electricity. I think the only saving grace is that most people don't ride in the winter when the static electricity is more prevalent.

Barbara · Posted: October 25, 2009, 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: Take Care

Know what, Pete? In all my years of riding my XS, I never considered that. Thanks! And I should have known---over the years we have had various boats, and always checked for static before and while filling the tanks. Of course, the tanks on the Brit bikes were grounded at some point, and I just never thought......wow. Now I need to be careful, since that angel that watches out for Fools and Irish won't protect me any more...... Very Happy

Seriously, thanks!

shaydaddy · Full Member Joined: May 17, 2009 Posts: 55

so now i'm confused. is it better to have the tank hard mounted and grounded to frame or floating on rubber mounts?????

acbanks · Posted: October 25, 2009, 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: Take Care

Rubber mounts with a ground wire would seem best to me, and something that I'd also never considered.

The problem with hard mounting anything on this bike is the vibration shakes the metal until it breaks(my license plate split in half).

I ride with a small disposable fire extinguisher in the saddle bag. It wouldn't help in a full on fire but it might stop a small one. I've tried putting out enough gas fires with cloth and sand to know it's a losing battle.

gggGary · Full Member Joined: Jan 07, 2009 Posts: 114

The whole frame is insulated from ground by rubber. So whats the gain of grounding the tank to the frame? I have never heard of a motorcycle spark ignition fuel tank fire has anyone else? You know safety is great but if there is no issue why mess with this?

Barbara · Posted: October 26, 2009, 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Take Care

OK, it's 'fess up time: I've not heard of a static-spark fire on a bike either, but think of the fun of explaining to someone else!

"Why, of course, it's the ground wire from the tank to the frame...you mean you are riding around without one? OMG!!"

Be kind of a hoot..... Very Happy

Joseph · Full Member Joined: May 22, 2007 Posts: 767 Location: NY

Quote::

the vacuum shutoff did its job and kept the rest of the fuel in the tank from heading my way. That's why I like vacuum petcocks.

That is one reason I like vacuum shutoffs also. I think they get a bad rap, they are so convenient and they just seem to work well for me and I'm sure others. So to the newbies don't be so hasty on ditching the vacuum shut off.

TeeCat · Posted: October 26, 2009, 11:35 am Post subject: Re: Take Care

What's the best way to safely dissipate static at the pumps?

Also, is it better to use 1/4" fuel line, versus a smaller size, to avoid splits? I may replace my fuel line and filters soon and was wondering what the preferred size is. And do people here generally recommend clips at all connections? My connections at the filters are very tight... almost "bonded", so I don't use them there, but at the tank and carbs I do.

xsjohn · Posted: October 26, 2009, 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Take Care

Well these guys aren't worried about fire.....that's for sure...... xsjohn

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUK35Jd_xzM

gggGary · Full Member Joined: Jan 07, 2009 Posts: 114

xsjohn wrote:

Well these guys aren't worried about fire.....that's for sure...... xsjohn

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUK35Jd_xzM

Obvious case of no ground strap!

gggGary · Full Member Joined: Jan 07, 2009 Posts: 114

TeeCat wrote:

What's the best way to safely dissipate static at the pumps?

You pretty much do it by default the nozzle is grounded. So Ideally grab or at least touch the nozzle while you open the cap. that puts everything at ground potential. keep the nozzle in contact with the tank while filling, problem solved. Quick Google as well as personal experience sez that the typical fire is related to getting out of the dry car by sliding across the seat. then touching the tank or nozzle with fuel flowing. IE driver has started the tank filling got back in the car and got out again. Touching the car first eliminates the spark potential at the tank. Funny thing is a grounded interior door handle in the car would eliminate all these incidents as well as some nasty spark snaps when exiting the car!

pamcopete · Posted: October 26, 2009, 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Take Care

gggGary,

Well, if you touch the cap to dissipate the static electricity, you have the cap vent to be concerned about, so you would be better off touching part of the frame, except the tank is not connected to the frame.

The bike and tank could have a static charge because, as you say, the frame is floating on rubber tires. As you get off of the bike, the kickstand and/or your boots may dissipate the static charge in the frame, but not the tank, because the tank is insulated from the frame.

Have I ever heard of a motorcycle tank exploding due to static electricity? Well, no, I haven't, but most people do not ride in the winter when the air is dry. I ride all year round, so I have some concern.

acbanks · Posted: October 26, 2009, 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: Take Care

I don't want to burn twice.

gggGary · Full Member Joined: Jan 07, 2009 Posts: 114

here is a video of a gas fire lit by static discharge.
Fire video
Note all the classic links in the chain. Again the human body works fine to discharge static electricity. touch the gas nozzle and your gas cap and you are good to go (flamelessly) Unless you have visible fuel leakage around the cap enough vapor from the cap vent to be ignitable is EXTREMELY unlikely. But then again maybe you buy lottery tickets.

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