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xs650 > > Motorcycle Systems > > Engine > > Oil pump reassembly


Oil pump reassembly
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pumps
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PostPosted: October 12, 2009, 9:19 am    Post subject: Oil pump reassembly

I'm working on a spare right side cover to install at a later date. One with a sight glass. Taking this thing apart for inspection. Looking at the oil pump and see how it works I notice some arrows on the innards. Of course I didn't see how they were when it came apart. Looking thru a manual I have here on my work computer I don't see much on the oil pump and no reference to re-assembly any certain way. Did a search thru the posts here and haven't found anything either.
First, what am I looking for in terms of wear if I need to replace something .
Second is there a correct way it should go back together? I assume they put those little arrows on there for some reason?

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xsjohn
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PostPosted: October 12, 2009, 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly

Surely the arrows line up.........on assembly just make sure the pump doesn't bind........turns freely.....if it does move or flip the parts (impellers) around till it doesn't bind......here is how to set the side clearance and smooth ths sides of the impellers...........good side clearnce increases flow...........

Smooth the sides of the impellers on sandpaper first then....Sand aluminum cover on flat surface with sandpaper.......turning the cover and measuring often........you hold tthe straight edge across the cover with the impellers inside of it and then use a feeler guage to see how far the impellers are indented in the case....... 2 thousands is good........

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PostPosted: October 12, 2009, 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly

Use no sealer on the impeller case........it will increase the side clearance and reduce the efficiency of the pump.................

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pumps
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PostPosted: October 13, 2009, 3:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly

John, Not sure what to do about getting the small impeller back on as it was ..I've no idea how it came off. I did re-assemble everything to see how it goes and I understand about closing up the gap on the cover to get better efficiency. The arrows , as I look at the side cover , open side up, do they go up or down or does it matter? I can't tell which face of the small impeller was against the cover as there is a wear ring where I think it ran against the shaft. It all looks ok. Before I get done with it I will sand the cover to get the clearance as you suggest.
The big gear has an indentation on one side that I think goes down against the pump cover....Mine actually looks like in a small spot on the pump cover that there was some sealer...Maybe a PO put some loctite on that nut? Something on there looks like.
What are the differences between the stock pump and the high performance one mike sells. Must be a big deal for the $185 price tag.

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PostPosted: October 13, 2009, 7:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly

High performance pump has wider impellers.........with 75 thou on mine and a paper oil filter (slows flow 15-20 percent) and a top end cooler and intake valve tip oilers I have never seen anything inside the engine that looked oil starved........and I run the stock pump.....

Not sure about the marks.........I lightly sanded the sides of the impellers on a flat surface to reduce the manufacturers grooves and then set the side clearance at .002 thou..............

Just install the impellers the way it makes since to you and then spin the pump once it's installed........if it doesn't catch then go for it.....if so move them around till it doesn't....the impellers are symmetrical so all will be good......

Setting side clearance..........rotate the cover (the one you took off) as you sand it so you get it the same all the way around.......""go slow""...........measure frequently......and maybe the side clearance is good already............won't know unless you measure it......

When I did mine about 55 thou ago there was a slight catch as I spun it when I finnished and put it together......so like I said above I changed the impellers around and the second time there was no catch....... been that was way since.........mine had no marks.....

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Teebs
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PostPosted: October 13, 2009, 7:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly

I thought I read somewhere on this forum that the HP pump increased oil pressure enough that it would actually open the sump filter bypass. Any truth to this?
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PostPosted: October 14, 2009, 1:03 am    Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly

when it's cold with thick oil......

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Teebs
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PostPosted: October 14, 2009, 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly

Thanks John.
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xsjohn
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PostPosted: October 14, 2009, 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly

I was just guessing........could tighten the bypass.........

As far as oiling.......it's my understanding that ball and roller bearings can suffer from too much oil........a wall of oil can form in front of the ball or roller causing it to slide instead of roll........read an article about turbos and oiling them.....the final conclusion in that particular article about that particular turbo was to use less pressure and a lighter oil to prevent bearing failure.......not recommending this for the XS but as the article illistrated......sometimes more is not good.......

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Srinath
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PostPosted: December 10, 2009, 10:25 am    Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly

OK where exactly is this pump, cos I didn't fing one in my motor. Oddly everythign was soaked wet with oil, so its gotta be there somewhere ?
Not in the bottom of the cases I presume ... so where.
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Srinath
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PostPosted: December 10, 2009, 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly

OK never mind, right side case hidden under the tack worm gear.
Gaaa, lousy spot for oil pump, we need to keep it on the center stand to avoid cavitation.
Luckily there is mostly all ball bearings.
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PostPosted: December 10, 2009, 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly

Right side case. Behind where the oil filter & cover is right front.
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yamaman
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PostPosted: December 10, 2009, 10:53 am    Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly

Have you even looked at a manual Srinath?

There's links to a couple in the vault if you need, there is a page with a oil system flow chart. Might help......Cheers

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Srinath
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PostPosted: December 11, 2009, 10:34 am    Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly

Yes have a manual, looked at it etc etc ... but I also go with logical positions etc etc.
I expect the oil pump to be at the bottom right above the pan ...
Anyway I'm good now, unless I got more weird questions about the quirls of this motor.
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xsleo
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PostPosted: December 12, 2009, 7:36 am    Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly

Srinath, yes the oil pump is located in the right cover. It sets lower than the oil level and the oil pick up point is in the sump filter. Your oil level would need to get very low or the bike laying on it's side to starve the pump for oil.
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harv
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PostPosted: December 21, 2009, 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly

Confused Should the small screw ( #22)holding check valve (spring #20 and 1/4" ball #21)
be tighten all the way down, or left flush with top of the large screw #19 ?
The #'s I refer to are for the Yamaha parts manual. The reason I ask
is on my first rebuild, I left it flush. On rebuild number two I ran it
all the way down. the engine seems to heat up quicker and run hotter
with it ran all the way down.
1975 b, street tracker.
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jayel
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PostPosted: December 21, 2009, 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly

flush... screwing it all the way in won't let the bypass work if it needs to
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pamcopete
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PostPosted: December 21, 2009, 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly

Well, I have a very different take on the oil filter bypass. Earlier models had the bypass in the oil pump, which is where it belongs.

Having it in the oil filter means that it will open and bypass the filter at exactly the wrong time, when there is junk in the oil plugging the filter, the bypass will open and let the junk into the innards of the engine. Even under normal circumstances, the bypass will open when the engine is cold and let unfiltered oil passed the filter.

So, I removed the ball and spring and screwed a threaded stud in their place so their is no bypass. I never have to worry about junk getting past the filter and ruining the engine.

However, there is a problem with that approach. If something were to plug up the filter, then no oil would get into the innards. So, I installed an oil pressure gage so I can monitor the pressure and be able to see a rise in pressure well before the filter was plugged up.




Oil filter cavity tap for the gage.
Next time I remove the wet side cover I'll tap into one of the plugs on the front of the case and replace the oil filter cover.

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