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xs650 > > Motorcycle Systems > > Electrical > > Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option


Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option
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IAmGrowler
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PostPosted: August 3, 2009, 12:50 pm    Post subject: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

I came across this on ebay and decided to give it a try.

I'll get back to you once it's installed and let you know how it works out.

www.rmstator.com/en/mo...s)/426.htm

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pumps
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PostPosted: August 3, 2009, 3:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

So let me ask this. I have switched over from points to a Pamco. Does this mean I can or cannot use that unit?
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IAmGrowler
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PostPosted: August 3, 2009, 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

pumps wrote:
So let me ask this. I have switched over from points to a Pamco. Does this mean I can or cannot use that unit?

>smacks forehead<

That is a very good question.

Considering I also have the Pamco Mod, I'm hoping I didn't just piss away $100.00.

Hopefully someone who knows the answer will chime in soon.

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gordo
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PostPosted: August 3, 2009, 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

I think you guy's are ok to use that regulator assy.,so long as you haven't modified the charging system connector's. Isn't that the same one that Mike's sell's?
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PostPosted: August 3, 2009, 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

Growler, who say's that the voice's are bad? Sometime's that's the only inteligent conversation's I have all day!
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PostPosted: August 3, 2009, 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

Keep us informed on how it goes but for me it's kind of pricey when you can do that other reg/rectifier mod for cheaper. Probably I'll spring for and build that stuff, won't be able to get it to work cuz it's a little outside my skill level, and then spend money to buy that one!
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pamcopete
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PostPosted: August 3, 2009, 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

The PAMCO will work just fine with any regulator / rectifier.
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xsleo
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PostPosted: August 4, 2009, 3:48 am    Post subject: Re: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

Seems like a lot more money than Pamcopete's conversions. I spent less than $25 to do my bike.
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IAmGrowler
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PostPosted: August 4, 2009, 8:55 am    Post subject: Re: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

pumps wrote:
Keep us informed on how it goes but for me it's kind of pricey when you can do that other reg/rectifier mod for cheaper. Probably I'll spring for and build that stuff, won't be able to get it to work cuz it's a little outside my skill level, and then spend money to buy that one!

I'm getting a bit long in the tooth for Mods that require chopping into the harness/loom.

Given the choice between 'Plug-n-Play' and chopping into the harness, I'll take the 'Plug-n-Play' option every time and damn the cost.

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pumps
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PostPosted: August 4, 2009, 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

I'm with you brother! For me it's about the added cost of aggravation.
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pamcopete
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PostPosted: August 4, 2009, 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

IAmGrowler,

Well, the regulator and rectifier mods do not require you to "chop into the harness". You can buy the matching plugs from Mikes to make them plug and play.

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xjwmx
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PostPosted: August 4, 2009, 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

Pete, the stock potted regulators, are they potted so well that the components are covered too, or is it just sealed up with potting material?

In other words, can one get in there to repair them? If you're like me, I couldn't have resisted trying to open an old one up.
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pamcopete
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PostPosted: August 4, 2009, 12:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

xjwmx,

Well, I have not had occasion to try that. The reg/rectifier from my '81/H was still working when I replaced it with the Chrysler regulator and Radio Shack rectifiers. I used a plug from Mikes so it is plug and play and mounted in the same place as the stock reg/rect.



The advantage to this setup, other than it's initial low cost, is that you can replace one of the rectifiers if it goes bad for $3.68. If the regulator goes, that's $13 and it comes with a one year warranty, so that costs nothing. If you are out of town when it goes, you can get the regulator at a local auto supply store and a replacement rectifier at Radio Shack. Even better, one set of diodes in the Radio Shack setup is not used, so if you fry a diode you can just switch the wire to the spare diode set.

I had intended to sell my working stock reg/rect on Ebay to effectively get a new reg/rect for free but I just never got around to it.

I did the same thing when I installed my PAMCO. I still have the working TCI which I will sell on Ebay one of these days. The price keeps going up!

That's what everyone should do. Sell your TCI and reg/rect on Ebay while they are still working and get a free new reg/rect and ignition system!

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Retiredgentleman
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PostPosted: August 4, 2009, 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

I used a VR-115 Regulator ( American Motors 1971 to 74, Jeeps 72 to 75) from AE Auto. Bought 2 bridge rectifiers at a local Electronics supplier. Used connector plugs from mikesxs. No changes to wiring harness. Plug and play and they work really well.

If you enjoy making up your own electrics, and know how to solder and use heat shrink tubing, this is the way to go. Oh yeah, inexpensive too.

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pumps
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PostPosted: August 4, 2009, 8:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

Ooookay I'll give it a try. When all these other parts finally get reassembled. I'm sort of a gorilla with a soldering iron though.
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locoleon
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PostPosted: August 9, 2009, 10:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

pamcopete wrote:
xjwmx,

Well, I have not had occasion to try that. The reg/rectifier from my '81/H was still working when I replaced it with the Chrysler regulator and Radio Shack rectifiers. I used a plug from Mikes so it is plug and play and mounted in the same place as the stock reg/rect.



The advantage to this setup, other than it's initial low cost, is that you can replace one of the rectifiers if it goes bad for $3.68. If the regulator goes, that's $13 and it comes with a one year warranty, so that costs nothing. If you are out of town when it goes, you can get the regulator at a local auto supply store and a replacement rectifier at Radio Shack. Even better, one set of diodes in the Radio Shack setup is not used, so if you fry a diode you can just switch the wire to the spare diode set.

I had intended to sell my working stock reg/rect on Ebay to effectively get a new reg/rect for free but I just never got around to it.

I did the same thing when I installed my PAMCO. I still have the working TCI which I will sell on Ebay one of these days. The price keeps going up!

That's what everyone should do. Sell your TCI and reg/rect on Ebay while they are still working and get a free new reg/rect and ignition system!

Hey Gents...
Has anyone posted up a step-by-step anywhere on how to do this?
Id sure love to give it a try but just dont know what parts to use & etc...

Im having the same charging problem with my XS right now and Im waiting for a NOS regualtor to come in from ebay..
I also know for a fact that the Honda cb550 & cb750 use the exact same hitachi rectifiers. The Coupler plugs are even the same, (but you just have to position the wires in a different order so that they match to the harness plug...)
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PostPosted: August 10, 2009, 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

This regulator requires you to modify the connections on the brushes of your alternator for '72 to '79 models to work like the brushes on a '80 to '84 model. No mods to the brushes are required for '80 to '83 models

1. Got to www.partsamerica.com or your local NAPA store.
2. Search for part # AL154CS @ [font=Verdana]$17.99 [/font]or VR295 or NAPA MPEVR38SB $16.69
3. ('72 to '79) Remove the ground connection from the inner brush.
4. ('72 to '79) Replace the three screws on the brush holder with nylon (not plastic) screws (M4-12)
5. ('72 to '79) Run a wire with a 7.5A inline fuse from the now isolated brush to a source of +12 volts from the ign switch (brown wire)
6. Install and wire the regulator as shown. The wire connections to the regulator use female bullet terminals.
7. The regulator does not have a ground wire. You must ensure that the case of the regulator is grounded. The battery box, where the stock regulator mounts, floats on its rubber mountings and is not a ground.




This regulator was used on virtually all Chrysler products from 1970 to 1989. It supplies a regulated ground on the green wire to the rotor brush instead of battery so if the rotor shorts out to ground it will not fry the regulator or blow the main fuse. I like it because it is technology from the same era as my '78 XS650 and it's available everywhere for a very low cost, not because it's a cheap product, but because there are lots of them out there and the auto stores are interested in selling them. Advance offers a one year warranty.

The wire connections to the regulator use female bullet connections, but you should remove the protective plastic from the connections for better contact.
Note: Also available from NAPA as their part number MPEVR38SB for $16.69 or from your local "retired vehicle" yard for $5.

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Last edited by pamcopete on August 10, 2009, 5:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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pamcopete
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PostPosted: August 10, 2009, 5:55 am    Post subject: Re: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

This is for '70 to '79 models:

Go to www.partsamerica.com. Type in "VR291". Find GP Sorensen VR291 regulator. Order it for $25.94. Go to www.MikesXS.com. Order plug set XS# 12-0633 for $4. That is the plug for the regulator. Cut off the plug that comes with the VR291. Crimp on the plug from Mikes.

Wire Color Code:
Orange and yellow wires together to Brown (+)
Black to Black (Brush Ground)
Green to Green (Brush +)

Plug it in. Test for 14.2 to 14.7 at battery with engine at 2500 RPM. (Wait for the battery to recover from the start load)

Tip: If you want to save the $4 for a new plug from MikesXS, just cut the old plug off of the old regulator and use it.

Note: If your brushes are crap (ALL brushes are crap),suggest you order new brushes from MikesXS. XS# 24-2650 or 51.

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pamcopete
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PostPosted: August 10, 2009, 5:58 am    Post subject: Re: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

Here is a suggested replacement for the rectifier on XS650's. Go to Radio Shack and buy 2 #276 - 1185 Full Wave Bridge Rectifiers for $3.29 ea.. Wire and mount them as follows:

1. Fabricate an aluminum plate approx 3 X 2 inches. Use .125 aluminum. This is the heat sink.
2. Mount the Rectifiers per the drawing, using heat sink compound between the bottom of the rectifiers and the plate.
3. Solder wires per the diagram.
4. Recommend that you eliminate the plug and connector as they are toast and you have to solder anyway.
5. Solder the wires from the Rectifiers per the diagram to the existing white wires going to the Alternator and plus / minus (Red / Black).
6. Use a heat sink when soldering the wires to the rectifiers.
7. Mount this assembly in the same place as the original, using either the center hole (as shown) or one of the mounting holes for one of the rectifiers.
8. Note: Do not ground the black wire on the mounting screws. The battery box is floating, it is not a ground.
9. Note: Crimp on terminals could be used if you solder the wires to the terminals.

The Radio Shack rectifier is rated at 25 amps. Two of the three white wires go to one rectifier and the other one goes to the other rectifier, so about 10 amps max is going through one rectifier at full load, with the remainder, 5 amps, going through the other.



The "N/C" terminal can be used as a spare in case one of the diodes shorts out in the future. You could "pre solder" a short wire to it so if you have to use it you can just cut and splice the affected white wire to it.....don't even need a soldering iron!

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georelle
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PostPosted: August 10, 2009, 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

I did the rect/reg modification Pamco recommends on my 76 bobber over a year ago and it works great. Definitely the way to go.

Thanks Pete
Georelle

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PostPosted: August 12, 2009, 10:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

Pamcopete, or Retiredgentleman, would I have to change my connections on brushes with my bike being a 78 "Special" I am still learning what is different on these bikes from standards. I am going to make one of these setups just for the ease of replacement, I plan on some longer distance rides in future.
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PostPosted: August 13, 2009, 5:23 am    Post subject: Re: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

bbjsw10,

If you use the VR291 or VR115 or their equivalents, then no change is required.

If you use the Chysler VR295 or its equivalent, then you wouyld have to do the nylon screw mod to isolate the inner brush from ground.

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PostPosted: August 14, 2009, 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

Installed the new Regulator/Rectifier when I got home today.

Installation took less than 30 minutes and 5 zip ties.

The difference was immediately apparent when I kicked it over -- It started on the first kick after sitting idle for 4 days, something it has never done before.

All of the normal draws on the electrical system (headlight, turn signals, rear driving light, brake light and horn) worked just fine at idle, something else it has never done before, even with a fully charged battery.

Overall I'm very happy with the upgrade -- If I had to offer any criticism at all, it would be that the fit of the two molex connectors were somewhat loose, but this wasn't too much of a big deal because I always run a zip tie lengthwise around all of the molex connectors on my bikes.

Between this upgrade and the upgraded fuse block (ATO/ATC fuse block) I finally have enough confidence in this bike to take it further than 100 miles from home.

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PostPosted: August 19, 2009, 7:32 am    Post subject: Re: Yet Another Regulator/Rectifier Replacement Option

Update:

Rode the bike from Seattle to Portland over the weekend, round trip was a little over 375 miles.

Took the battery out (an AGM from MikesXS) and put it on the charger when I got home -- It charged for 15 minutes and then shut down.

I think I've finally licked my charging issue.

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