Now, no spark?

pumps · Posted: July 12, 2009, 12:01 am Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

I understand. It'll have to wait though as I'm pulling some extra duty...30 hours at the station. Shocked

When I get off I'm off to a buddy's house out in the country to borrow a trencher to bury power to my barn and my neighbors garage.

pumps · Posted: July 13, 2009, 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

Ok, I got all my crimping, soldering, heat shrinking done.Green to one side of the coil, black to a grounded bolt. Installed the new plate with loop to an inline 7.5 amp fuse on the red wire over the battery cover under the seat. Installed the rotor and rod through the cam . Turned it by hand , didn't see a spark on my grounded plug. Used the starter...nothing. Checked for voltage at the red connector on the coil, nothing. Pulled the fuse , found voltage on one side....check fuse, it's toast. Swapped it out for another, cranked it, saw the fuse spark and open. So I'm assuming the coil is shorted and blowing the fuse? Time to order a coil from mike?

pamcopete · Posted: July 13, 2009, 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

pumps,

That's what it sounds like, and it matches the damage to the PC board that you showed me.

Order a 17-6822 instead of the 17-6803.

But, before you do that, check the resistance of the coil again. When this problem first came up, you measured the resistance and it was 2.6 to 2.7 Ohms, which is OK.

A review of the wiring: The red/white wire is connected to one end of the fuse holder. The other end is connected to the coil and the red wire going to the PAMCO. Correct?

pumps · Posted: July 13, 2009, 8:18 pm Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

From the double female in the harness in a red wire to an inline 7.5 amp fuse under the seat then BACK to a female spade terminal with that red and red from the plate soldered,crimped,heat-shrinked together. Green to the other side of the coil. Black to ground.

Rechecking the coil, I think it's fried. Looks like .2 ohms. Why the different coil?

pamcopete · Posted: July 14, 2009, 6:56 am Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

pumps,

The 17-6822 coil runs cooler and has a longer spark duration and it is the one that Mike is currently shipping with the PAMCO kits.

ike is currently out of stock on both coils, so I will send you one that I have, no charge. We have to get you back on the road.

TeeCat · Posted: July 14, 2009, 7:41 am Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

hey pumps... was just curious as to how you're coming along with this. Hope you're getting back on the road. And one would hope that the washing might at least be identifiable as a causative factor, as opposed to some random boogaboo. Hopefully the new coil will resolve it.

Actually - Pete might have a thought here - I was wondering if water in some undesired place might have "simulatad" a scenario in which one plug was not grounded... just a guess, though. Seems too (un)timely to be mere coincidence.

pamcopete · Posted: July 14, 2009, 7:53 am Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

TeeCat

Well, I don't see how washing could have caused the coil to short out. I wash my '81/H all the time at the car wash using the engine cleaner and high pressure rinse. You would have to flood the inside of the "points" housing to cause the PAMCO to quit, but it would recover when it dries out.

So, no...you don't have to have a dirty bike if you are running the PAMCO!!

Leaving the ignition on with the engine not running would do it. Installing an inline fuse like pumps did will protect the PAMCO if the coil does short out for any reason, however. The '80 to '83 models have a built in fuse for the ignition, but the points bikes only have the main 20 Amp fuse, so if the coil shorts out, there is not enough current to blow the fuse, so it fries the PAMCO, that's why I reccomend installing a 7 1/2 Amp fuse with the PAMCO.

Retiredgentleman · Posted: July 14, 2009, 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

Actually Pete, Yamaha started using the 4 fuses with the 78 Special model, so there is a fuse position for the ignition on the 78 and 79 SE's as well.

pamcopete · Posted: July 14, 2009, 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

RG,

Thanks for the reminder. I keep forgetting that the Specials came out in '78.

pumps · Posted: July 14, 2009, 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

Pete I appreciate the offer but you don't have to send me a coil. I can wait til mike has one in stock. I still have a great bike to ride, my 250 Ninjette. I don't know what happened and it actually ran for a bit before it shut down. Maybe just a bad coil. It would not be the first time I've put a bad part on. I remember putting a starter on my 69 Chevelle that lasted a couple of days. S#@t happens. It had sat for an hour at least in the driveway and it couldn't have gotten very wet anyway. I think it was just a coincidence.

pamcopete · Posted: July 14, 2009, 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

pumps,

issed your post. Already on it's way.

pumps · Posted: July 16, 2009, 10:47 pm Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

Ok so I got parts . A different coil which is easy to install as it's a bit smaller/shorter and configured a little different so as to not take up so much room. New Pamco plate installed with an inline fuse from the harness to under the seat. I've got as far as mounting the coil and plate. Need to install the caps on the new coils preinstalled plug wires. Add two pieces of heat shrink over my spade connections (red and green wires) that go on the coil. Rotor installed with washer also. I hope my newly rebuilt petcocks don't leak when I put fuel into the tank..... Shocked

Better do this OUTSIDE the barn and have extinguisher ready. Hey what's the electronic signal flasher from the auto parts store that will work. I'm gonna dump the old oem one while I'm in here working.

pumps · Posted: July 18, 2009, 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

Now I GOTS spark! I had a little bit of time today between using a dirt wrench to dig three trenches today. Final heat shrink to my connectors. Cut new plug wires to size. Buttoned up both the advance end and ignition end . Installed a new fuse and baddabing baddaboom! Sparks a flyin'.
The inline fuse did protect the plate it would seem when the coil was shorted.

Ok I couldn't wait until tomorrow. Got the tank with rebuilt petcocks put on and got her to run. A little choke and she fired right up YAY! Thanks Pete!

pamcopete · Posted: July 19, 2009, 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

pumps,

Well, I saw your post last night, but thought I would wait til you actualy fired her up. Now I can sleep at night!!

pumps · Posted: July 19, 2009, 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

I almost was out there in my underwear working on it. I couldn't wait.

jayel · Posted: July 19, 2009, 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

I'm pretty sure Kansas City, MO is semi-civilized (not so sure about K.C. Ks) don't they have laws against that kind of going-ons?

pamcopete · Posted: July 19, 2009, 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

jayel,

Well, as long as you wear your helmet...

pumps · Posted: July 19, 2009, 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

Actually it was night and my house backs up on about a half a mile deep band of woods. No one lives behind me, except the deer, turkeys, and the hoot owls and they wouldn't complain.

pumps · Posted: July 24, 2009, 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

Pulled a 90 mile ride this morning and she ran fine. I'm going to call it good. Smile

newelly · Posted: July 24, 2009, 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

So i tested the wiring I did from the Pamco, the volts to the two red/white are around 11.75V, there is spark on the left side not the right. I have looked at the previous posts and I am at a loss... any help I can get would be great... Attached are a few pics of the wiring and the Pamco
yfrog.com/eqp7240172j
img530.imageshack.us/i...40170z.jpg
img530.imageshack.us/i...40171x.jpg

pamcopete · Posted: July 24, 2009, 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

newelly,

Well, generally, a dual output coil will provide a spark on both sides. It's very unusual for only one side to have spark.

Both plugs must be connected at all times. To test for spark, leave one plug in the engine and connect the other plug wire to a spark plug that is grounded to the engine.

If you have done this and you do not get a spark on one side, then it is the coil, but that is a very unusual situation.

easure the resistance from one plug wire to the other. If you have 5 K caps, then you should read about 23 K Ohms.

newelly · Posted: July 24, 2009, 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

now I am not getting spark on either side... could this all be from the fubar fuse box that I have (i am ready to throw in the towel) and just buy a new bike, but I love the xs650 too much) if anyone is able to help me with a phone call or if anyone is in Fort Dodge Ia are and has knowledge that would be the best deal yet... also is my wiring correct, the red/white to the blue wire on the coil, the other red/white to the red from the pamco, the black/white from the coil to the green on the pamco, and the black from the pamco to the previous coil mount location... I may start all over and try it again...thanks

yamaman · Posted: July 24, 2009, 9:50 pm Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

Your fuse block does look pretty trashed! But as Pete said, if 1 side was firing, then the other side should to. If you wanted, you could just set up a hot wire straight from the battery to the coil, don't leave it on there, just for the purpose of trying it out!

Start simple, put some new plugs in it!

If you've been checking for spark & have cranked the engine over with the plugs out & not grounded to the engine, you could have fried the coil!

With a dual output coil, both plugs must always be in contact with the engine!

ight pay to do as Pete said & check the resistance of the coil. If you don't have the gear to check it, I'm sure if you took it to an auto sparky & looked needy, they'd have a quick look at it for you! Good luck

newelly · Posted: July 24, 2009, 9:54 pm Post subject: Re: Now, no spark?

again not getting any spark now... i checked the resistane from one plug cap to the other it was 16k or so, tried to also check the resistance from the side that wasn't working to the black on the coil and got about 15k and the same on the side that was firing, now not getting any spark with a plug that has a clip to the fin of the motor with the other side still plugged in to the plug in the motor.... help me please

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