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my retarded timing
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mynameismudd
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PostPosted: June 29, 2009, 4:51 pm    Post subject: my retarded timing

ok i have NO idea what i am doing when it comes to timing my xs
i have the pamco installed w/ the advancing rod and the pic here look nothing like my 81 650. so.... i need someone to break this down in layman's
terms. let us just say i i have no money to get someone else to do it
please help Sad

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jayel
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PostPosted: June 29, 2009, 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: my retarded timing

at idle it should fire at the F mark you will only have one on your 81, and should advance to the forward mark between 2500 and 3000 rpm
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pamcopete
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PostPosted: June 29, 2009, 5:44 pm    Post subject: Re: my retarded timing

mynameis mudd,

1. Start with the plate in this position:



2. Remove the cover from the alternator
3. Clamp your timing light to one of the spark plug wires.
4. Start the engine.
5. Allow the engine to warm up.
6. Shine the timing light on the lower right corner of the rotor housing.


7. The timing light will flash every time the spark plug fires.
8. Observe that the timing mark on the rotating rotor is "frozen" at or near the "F" or "U" mark.
9. If the timing mark is not on the "F" or "U" mark, loosen the two screws that hold the plate in position.
10. Rotate the plate clockwise to move the timing mark to the left or rotate the plate counter clockwise to move the timing mark to the right until the timing mark is at the "F" or "U" mark.
11. Tighten the two screws holding the plate in place.
12. Increase the engine speed to 3,000 RPM.
13. Observe that the timing mark moves to the left to the mark for maximum advance.

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mynameismudd
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PostPosted: June 29, 2009, 6:02 pm    Post subject: Re: my retarded timing

thank you guys a million thanks, good as good gets Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
in love again Razz
btw pete, love the ignition for real!!!

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pamcopete
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PostPosted: June 29, 2009, 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: my retarded timing

mynameismudd,

Well, just do the best you can with those instructions. Get back here if you have any questions. There are plenty of people who have installed it and they or I can help.

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mynameismudd
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PostPosted: August 10, 2009, 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: my retarded timing

ok been down awhile and have been trying to get this timing thing right....still
moving the plate does not help, the problem is beyond this, now when i move the other side of the rod what ever that is with the springs and clips i can get her running, there has to be a way to set the timing before i ever installed the pamco. has my timing jumped or slipped a link or what?
spoke to a shop and they said it sounds like i'm out 180 degs. wtf....fa real
to be sure this can't be right. when i move the other side i spoke of she cranks and goes down the road and back and then nothing.... please help Sad


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pamcopete
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PostPosted: August 10, 2009, 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: my retarded timing

mynameismudd,

Well, you shouldn't be able to move the "other side" with the springs and weights, so perhaps you did not install the locating pin for the advance mechanism. The kit from mikes had an extra pin (3rd pin) included for this purpose. Here is where it goes:


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mynameismudd
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PostPosted: August 10, 2009, 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re: my retarded timing

i should have been more specific, i have to loosen the lock nut to do this
almost like i have to have the lock nut and weights aligned in the right position
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PostPosted: August 10, 2009, 2:57 pm    Post subject: Re: my retarded timing

mynameismudd,

Even with the lock nut loosened, you should not be able to turn the advance mechanism. The locating pin is there to prevent the mechanism from moving. Check to see that the locating pin is in place. There is only one correct position for the advance mechanism. You should not be able to move the advance mechanism.

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mynameismudd
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PostPosted: August 10, 2009, 3:46 pm    Post subject: Re: my retarded timing

i'm sorry if i'm being unclear and hard to get along with here but.... it's not the atr that's moving it the lock nut and weights only. when i loosen the nut i can spin the weights and lock nut, with the "RIGHT" alignment of both she runs and the "WRONG" alignment she kicks like a mule and splits my shin
BTW the pin ins in there, now the only thing i did and it got her running was when the shop said she was 180 out i pulled the pin under the advance unit on the atr and move it to the other side to try and put it 180 back



if you would like i'll give you a 92 bronco on 33x14.5 ss tsl's if you come up to nc and fix it for me lol!!

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pamcopete
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PostPosted: August 10, 2009, 4:05 pm    Post subject: Re: my retarded timing

mynameismudd,

Well, I guess I don't understand what it is that you are moving. As for the 180 "problem" it doesn't matter with a wasted spark system. Both plugs fire at the same time, so they can't be 180 degrees out.

When you refer to the lock nut, do you mean the very large nut that holds the advance mechanism to the cam shaft?

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5twins
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PostPosted: August 10, 2009, 4:20 pm    Post subject: Re: my retarded timing

deleted

Last edited by 5twins on September 13, 2009, 2:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mynameismudd
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PostPosted: August 10, 2009, 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: my retarded timing

5twins wrote:
That small disc on the advance unit side, the one under the small M6 nut that hooks into the weights, also needs to be pinned in place. Is yours?

yes, i wish it was that easy though, the only thing i didn't install was the brass bushing that came with the kit. couldn't get those in and didn't seem to need them either


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pamcopete
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PostPosted: August 10, 2009, 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: my retarded timing

Thanks, 5twins.

Mynameismudd,

Here is a review of the three locating pins involved in the advance mechanism and advance rod:

First, there is a locating opin for the advance mechanism itself:



Then, there is a pin that locates the slotted disk on the advance side of the advance rod:



Then, finally, there is a pin that locates the points cam or PAMCO rotor:



All three pins must be in place. The only movement with all three pins in place is the movement of the rotor and advance rod against the springs. When you move the rotor, it springs back. There is no other adjustment or movement of the components in the advance mechanism and advance rod. If you are moving somethinmg other than the plate with the PC board to make the engine run, then one of the pins is not there.

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PostPosted: August 10, 2009, 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: my retarded timing

mynameismudd wrote:
5twins wrote:
That small disc on the advance unit side, the one under the small M6 nut that hooks into the weights, also needs to be pinned in place. Is yours?

yes, i wish it was that easy though, the only thing i didn't install was the brass bushing that came with the kit. couldn't get those in and didn't seem to need them either


my name is mudd

mudd,

The brass bushing and labrynth are essential on the right side. Without it, the locating pin will drop into the cavity in the cam shaft.

Please remove the advance mechanism and check to see if the locating pin is in place or has dropped down into the cam shaft cavity.

You must have a brass bushing installed in the PAMCO side, but not the labrynth.

Clean out the cavities in the cam shaft for the bushings before you install them.

You must have a brass bushing and labrynth in the advance (right side) and the bushing only in the PAMCO side to locate the advance rod.

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mynameismudd
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PostPosted: August 10, 2009, 5:18 pm    Post subject: Re: my retarded timing

First, there is a locating opin for the advance mechanism itself:


ok Sad i have one there now, found one to fit in the shop. now that thats over
she still kicks like a mule and pops the carbs right off, will be getting to the bushings in a bit, thanks for your patience
BTW sorry so dense sometimes pete

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mynameismudd
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PostPosted: August 10, 2009, 5:34 pm    Post subject: Re: my retarded timing

ok i have 2 05-0032 or part #90386-12093 ( brass bushings) and 2 05-0033
or part# 256-11155-00 (aluminum / silver bushings) and what is the labrynth?also do i remove the old bushings on the cam hole where the atr goes in? this is the only place i see to put them


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pamcopete
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PostPosted: August 10, 2009, 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: my retarded timing

mynameismudd,

Well, I'm confused again. I thought that you had an '81 model. If so, then there are no bushings or labrynth to remove. The labrynth is part #05-0033. Install the bushing first in the right side, followed by the #05-0033. Install only the bushing in the left side.

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PostPosted: August 10, 2009, 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: my retarded timing

pamcopete wrote:
mynameismudd,

Well, I'm confused again. I thought that you had an '81 model. If so, then there are no bushings or labrynth to remove. The labrynth is part #05-0033. Install the bushing first in the right side, followed by the #05-0033. Install only the bushing in the left side.

give me a sec. posting some pic

you know who i am Very Happy
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mynameismudd
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PostPosted: August 10, 2009, 6:21 pm    Post subject: Re: my retarded timing

PAMCO SIDE


RIGHT SIDE



this is as is as of right now when i remove everthing, this is also what it looked like when i bought her. i just don't see what i am suppose to do unless i remove the others, and she is an 81' also, i rechecked the title to be sure lol


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pamcopete
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PostPosted: August 10, 2009, 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: my retarded timing

mudd,

OK. Looks like there is a bushing and labrynth in both sides. So, maybe what you are saying is that you are turning the PAMCO rotor one way or the other to get it to start and run, and the rotor does not snap back?

You should not be able to turn the advance mechanism (your second photo) because it is locked to the cam shaft with the pin.

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mynameismudd
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PostPosted: August 10, 2009, 6:41 pm    Post subject: Re: my retarded timing

pamcopete wrote:
mudd,

OK. Looks like there is a bushing and labrynth in both sides. So, maybe what you are saying is that you are turning the PAMCO rotor one way or the other to get it to start and run, and the rotor does not snap back?

You should not be able to turn the advance mechanism (your second photo) because it is locked to the cam shaft with the pin.

right i posted that i was missing the pin behind the atm, but i have it in now
do i need to replace the old bushing and labryth? would it be better?

also she is kicking back and popping the carbs off

my name is mudd

ok i replaced them anyway and put it all back together and the battery's dead so we'll find out tomorrow, BTW i moved one of the pins back when i thought it was 180 out and i moved it back tonight also had enough juice to kick her and she felt good but not enough juice to crank
thanks a million pete, you've been more help than i could ever ask for

my name is grateful Laughing


Last edited by mynameismudd on August 10, 2009, 7:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pamcopete
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PostPosted: August 10, 2009, 7:19 pm    Post subject: Re: my retarded timing

mudd,

That's probably the next thing to do. They may be damaged and binding the advance rod. probably you can use a very long screwdrive to tap them out from the opposite side.

This thread will be one that ends up in the vault!

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mynameismudd
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PostPosted: August 10, 2009, 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: my retarded timing

pamcopete wrote:
mudd,

That's probably the next thing to do. They may be damaged and binding the advance rod. probably you can use a very long screwdrive to tap them out from the opposite side.

This thread will be one that ends up in the vault!
no doubt!

see above your last post, i post an update


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