Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

5twins · Full Member Joined: Aug 05, 2006 Posts: 1616

I guess I don't understand this rake and trail business very well. What exactly are you trying to accomplish or, in other words, what helps for sidecar use? Moving the front wheel back in and creating a steeper fork angle or kicking it out farther forward, like a chopper extended front end?

On the Earles, you move the swingarm pivot to the forward hole, in effect lengthening the wheelbase some and kicking the front end out ahead more. There are also 2 upper shock mount holes, one below the other. You move the upper shock eye to the lower hole along with moving the swingarm pivot ahead. This would seem to move the front wheel ahead and increase the rake, right? It does lengthen the wheelbase by 1.3" (35mm) according to the specs in the manual.

Another thing the manual tells you is absolutely DO NOT ride the bike solo with the forks in the sidecar position, guess it wobbles or something, huh Smile

jayel · Posted: July 1, 2009, 12:30 pm Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Harley had a special fork on their bikes for sidecars
www.libertysidecars.co...oduct5.htm

gordonscott · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 304

Hi 5twins, hard to explain, easy to show... we need to reduce trail, have you ever took the bars on your bike and move them side to side when parked? you will notice the bike will raise a little when you do this and be at it's highest point when in the middle, wheel strait. When you move the wheel forward and leave the neck geometry stock the wheel "lifting" is gone. Bikes are designed for two wheels and the stock geometry is set up for a stable ride and "self centering" effect of the front wheel. I rode a goldwing trike yesterday with raked tree's and was like power steering Shocked

gordonscott · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 304

jayel wrote:

Harley had a special fork on their bikes for sidecars
www.libertysidecars.co...oduct5.htm

I remeber those adjustable stock one's from Harley and there is one on ebay for a "G" note, yikes! you could change rake for sidecar or no sidecar Cool

Interesting they used that same tree on the servi-car? $ and cents is why I'm sure.

Barbara · Posted: July 1, 2009, 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Hi Guys,

Back to the position of the third wheel for a second--I guess I was snow-blind. I have a manual for a BSA that shows how to mount a chair to an A65, and they show the "proper" position of the third wheel in relation to the motorcycle wheels. It's also, of course, a "starting point", but in the case of my present chair, it worked really well. I can dig up the book and get the measurement if anyone is interested. The thing is, that the specs are predicated upon use of the BSA front fork, so that should be taken into account.

There's really no end to the variables, and that's one of the things that makes sidecars so interesting.....and frustrating.....infuriating.....and fun. Very Happy

nudude53 · Posted: July 1, 2009, 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

I flunked math, I guess I'm gonna flunk sidecar too.

gordonscott · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 304

nudude53 wrote:

I flunked math, I guess I'm gonna flunk sidecar too.

We will flunk together my friend Laughing

gordonscott · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 304

Hi Guys, Well this whole thing has been very interesting to say the least. I have wanted to roll this whole pile of sh!t down a hill and into a tree many times now but looking back a lot of it was my own doing and inexperience Rolling Eyes

. I have had this thing apart so many times now I was not being as thorough as I should have in my measurements. Somehow the sidecar wheel lead was changed and was about 11” forward of rear tire on bike. This made for great left turn stability and strait ahead driving but made turning a real chore. Imagine a car with only one front wheel turning, an exaggeration to make the point. Now with wheel at 9” it is a lot easier to turn with only minimal loss of left hand turn stability. By myself this is the best I’ve had it! Makes me realize how critical every adjustment is and how I had this thing screwed up 6 ways to Sunday, which brings me to my next point. When I put my wife in the chair it all changed again, WTF!!! I had her sit in the sidecar while I watched and for the first time could see the rear of the sidecar sink a little more then the bike? 5twins was right, I need to sub frame this for better sidecar mounting and get the bottom two mounts further apart (thanks 5twins for that info Wink

). So for now I just used 3/16” plate steel mounted to bike and connected together from both sides of bike, it is strong. The other mounts are good because they are all at strong locations on the frame, near motor mount, up by neck gusset etc… Well I had her get in it with new mount and it did not sink, went for a ride and success !!! Because sidecar was not mounted sturdy (felt sturdy) it was shifting a tiny bit when she got in it and was changing my toe in and lean out angles. So again it’s now better then ever, goes down the road strait and is totally neutral left and right. Also the right pull on acceleration and left pull on deceleration is a lot less? Not sure why this is? I would think with the wheel lead moved back the pull would increase, but I’m not complaining. I still will need to do something about turning because with a passenger it gets tiring after a hundred miles or so. Thanks again guys for your help, ALL of you, it is now a usable rig. Next will be the front end trail, I still think I would like to build a leading link but now that I know just how critical things must be I will look into it a little more, anyone with experience in this department? I’m all ears.

4t51 · New Member Joined: Jan 21, 2009 Posts: 4

www.hpsidecars.com/

Poke around at this link you'll find a lot of sidecar do's and don'ts on fabrication etc. We're a good bunch of guy's who like to help out if we can.

4t

Retiredgentleman · Posted: July 7, 2009, 10:07 am Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Some great pictures of sidecars at that link, Barb's going to love it.

5twins · Full Member Joined: Aug 05, 2006 Posts: 1616

Well, it seems you're making some headway, Gordon. The BMW /2 had it's lower rear mount very far back, almost to the rear axle (red arrow). The front lower mount was accomplished by replacing the front motor mount bolt with a special one that had a ball on the end (green arrow). Upper mounts were eye bolts stuck into lugs that came welded to the frame from the factory (yellow arrows).

The use of ball mounts for the lower attachment points is quite common on Euro sidecars. It makes adjusting the lean in/out on the bike much easier.

gordonscott · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 304

4t51 wrote:

http://www.hpsidecars.com/

Poke around at this link you'll find a lot of sidecar do's and don'ts on fabrication etc. We're a good bunch of guy's who like to help out if we can.

4t

thanks a bunch, great site!

gordonscott · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 304

5twins wrote:

Well, it seems you're making some headway, Gordon. The BMW /2 had it's lower rear mount very far back, almost to the rear axle (red arrow). The front lower mount was accomplished by replacing the front motor mount bolt with a special one that had a ball on the end (green arrow). Upper mounts were eye bolts stuck into lugs that came welded to the frame from the factory (yellow arrows).

The use of ball mounts for the lower attachment points is quite common on Euro sidecars. It makes adjusting the lean in/out on the bike much easier.

MAN that bike is nice!!! Mr. Green

xjwmx · Posted: July 8, 2009, 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Today I saw an old Russian bike with sidecar and the sidecar wheel was driven by a thing that looked like a cv joint on the bike's rear wheel hub.

jayel · Posted: July 8, 2009, 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

www.ural.com/ click on the green one in the center.... these started out as russian copies of WWII German BMW's...
there are also Dneprs

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...otorcycle)

xjwmx · Posted: July 16, 2009, 10:34 pm Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

It was a Dnepr (pronounced nepper apparently). Looks exactly like the one in the wiki link.

feliz · Posted: July 16, 2009, 11:18 pm Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

This is what I carry in my rig!!

jayel · Posted: July 17, 2009, 6:07 am Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

What! No Caviar! Old Russian proverb "the church is near but the roads are icy, the tavern is far but we will walk carefully"

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

750cc and 40hp, not exactly for the track but man they are nice

jayel · Posted: July 17, 2009, 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

read a write up of couple that toured a Ural rig, no superslab all secondaries 55mph cruise which is about topend for one of those

gordonscott · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 304

feliz wrote:

This is what I carry in my rig!!

OUTSTANDING!!! Laughing

Would you share with us your experience with your Ural. I would love to here what you think of it and would you recommend one? Reliability, handling (for being on/off road rig) What about the leading link, take some getting used too? Thanks and looking forward to your reply if you find the time Very Happy

p.s. Nice rig by the way and here is an alternate super fuel for south of the border, look close at his gas can Laughing

feliz · Posted: July 18, 2009, 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Thanks for the comments. I'm getting ready to head off to work and I can elaborate more later but my experiance with the Ural hasn't been great. Mine is an 05 and only has 3500 kms (2000 miles) and there's a reason why, it hasn't been running most of the time. I had little support from my dealer or Ural Canada and had to go over the border to the US to get any help. All is well now though and as others have said these are a hoot. Scary at any speed, two wheel drive is OK but with no differential is only good in limited situations. Wayne

jayel · Posted: July 19, 2009, 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

here's a pic of my rig on a 71 CB450 Honda, have since made a fender for it and mounted a honda 360 swingarm on the bike 2" longer and the lower shock mounts are also that much farther back, lowered the rear of the bike and changed the front fork geometry, took a lot of the previous headshake problem out of it, the hack is a Thompson CycleCar from the early 70's real light so it wasn't suitible for the 650 wanted to fly all the time, on the 450 it's just right 55/60mph and stable

www.cyclesidecar.com/p...Manual.pdf

gordonscott · Full Member Joined: May 06, 2009 Posts: 304

Hey Jayel, why did you wait so long to share this little factoid? Laughing

how long have you been hack'in? And also when you changed your swing arm and dropped the rear down you increased trail, that reduced front end wobble but harder to turn at speed or with weight in the car. That is a very light sidecar indeed so you don’t notice the evils of sidecars as bad as heavier rigs I would imagine? Also looks flat out there so perfect for sidecars Very Happy

Have you driven a bigger outfit for comparison? I would love to have something to compare with so anyone in New England want to let a stranger try their most prized possession let me know Smile

What Happened to 650rider.com?

Yamaha xs650