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xs650 > > General Conversation > > I'm just saying... you know > > Hi Barb and other sidecar folk


Hi Barb and other sidecar folk
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650skull
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PostPosted: October 22, 2009, 6:40 am    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

more. Go back a page to see a good pic of the front.


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gordonscott
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PostPosted: November 13, 2009, 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

I’ve not had a lot of time to work on my own stuff lately but stayed up late the other night to install the front end on the sidecar rig. Before it was hard to turn but now is too easy! No wobble at speed but the slightest touch of the bars makes it sway like a jeep with a lift kit? Tubes used were .188wall dom so I don’t think it’s due to weak tubing? If I did not have enough trail I should have a “shopping cart” wheel wobble but I don’t? Road crown cannot even be felt anymore and passenger in chair makes no difference, sooooo easy to turn just VERY sensitive? Also when flying the chair there is a wobble but I’m assuming it’s because I’m on two wheels and geometry is set for three? This just goes to show the more you know the less you know, I’ve got a lot to learn. p.s. Skull, that is an awsome rig! Have not seen that one before, looks stable as hell!


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jayel
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PostPosted: November 13, 2009, 1:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

gordon do you have a steering dampener mounted? that would help slow down the steering a bit
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yamaman
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PostPosted: November 13, 2009, 2:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

I've stated earlier that I know jack about sidecars, so please don't forget that!

The rear looks kinda low in comparison to the front, maybe longer shocks (or some kind of a riser) might load the front up a bit more & help you out?

I don't suppose you weighed your wheels footprint with the old configuration so you could compare front/rear bias....

Also the front tyre could be making it skittish, perhaps a squarer profile might sort it?

www.avon-tyres.co.uk/s...ecar_1.pdf

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gordonscott
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PostPosted: November 13, 2009, 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

jayel wrote:
gordon do you have a steering dampener mounted? that would help slow down the steering a bit
Hi Jayel, I do, it's the same one I had before. It's small (from Mikes) do you think a heavy duty one would do the trick? If so from what? Like one used on a old VW or something? p.s. if you click on picture you can see it mounted.

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gordonscott
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PostPosted: November 13, 2009, 2:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Yamaman, I totaly agree a flat profile tire would be so much better but I'm running 130/16 front and rear now and having a hell of a time finding flat profile tires in that size. Coker tire has some antuiqe car tires that might do it but I would love some modern rubber. I think I could get a 175/60-16 on there but can't find any on the net? Also if I raise the rear it will reduce trail in front and make it even more unstable (I think?) thanks for the input guys Wink
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yamaman
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PostPosted: November 13, 2009, 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

www.avon-tyres.co.uk/s...ecar_1.pdf

Avon make a 5.00-16

A couple of other options here:

www.antiquetyres.com.a...cle?page=1


Check out this monster!

www.advrider.com/forum...tcount=624

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gordonscott
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PostPosted: November 13, 2009, 8:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Very Happy
yamaman wrote:
http://www.avon-tyres.co.uk/sites/default/files/Speedmaster_Safety_Mileage_MKII_Sidecar_1.pdf

Avon make a 5.00-16

A couple of other options here:

www.antiquetyres.com.a...cle?page=1


Check out this monster!

www.advrider.com/forum...tcount=624
Thanks Yamaman Very Happy I did look at your other post and clicked on link but thought it was only the triple duty that was flat profile and they don’t come in a 16” This time I looked closer and see that the 16” they make is almost flat profile so might be just what the sidecar doctor ordered. I’ve never seen those here in the states before so may have to order from UK. Thanks a lot for taking the time to get those links for me I really do appreciate it Wink

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yamaman
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PostPosted: November 14, 2009, 5:49 am    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

No drama at all. If it wasn't for you posting 3rd wheel stuff, I'd still be living in ignorant bliss about the whole thing.....There was never a sidecar in my lottery dream before.........Now the lottery shed is going to have to be bigger.....Or a second story Laughing
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PostPosted: November 14, 2009, 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Gordon
talking with charlie on your car set up, again he said his stuff worked better with flat bias ply tyres. But added this fuel for thought. Rear springs rates. He said that forget what is recomended for spring rates for solo machines, go heavier. It will he;p transfer some of the load to the steering. Also front spring rates will change handleing characteristics. Dont know what your running either end, but may play a big role in what you are experianceing. He didnt say to go either heavier nor lighter on the front, just that it does alter the handleing. What did you experiance when you put in the progressive springs on the stock forks? Of course that may not be the same with useing coil overs as you are now. But may need to either lighten up or or stiffen up. Also all shocks are not created equaly. The cheap oil shocks such as the ones mikes sells have small damping rods, I beleive are 3/8", compared with say red wing hammerheads at 1/2", means more damping action. Also more money. Damm you got to love those old 70 plus year old guys that played with this stuff back in the days when there was very little technology. You should hear his trike tricks.

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yamaman
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PostPosted: November 14, 2009, 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

I read a couple of places that scooter tyres are a good thing for sidecar steerers....?

www.tyresalesuk.co.uk/...=16&Page=1

I'm sure you already know, but when using a (cross or bias ply anyway, not sure about radials) rear tyre on the front, you should have the directional arrow going the wrong way. Just a safety thing, shouldn't effect handling, stops the tyre coming to bits under brakes.

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gordonscott
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PostPosted: November 25, 2009, 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

yamaman wrote:
I read a couple of places that scooter tyres are a good thing for sidecar steerers....?

www.tyresalesuk.co.uk/...amp;Page=1

I'm sure you already know, but when using a (cross or bias ply anyway, not sure about radials) rear tyre on the front, you should have the directional arrow going the wrong way. Just a safety thing, shouldn't effect handling, stops the tyre coming to bits under brakes.
I did not know this info so thanks for giving me the scoop Very Happy also never thought of scooter tires (tyres UK Smile ) so I will have a look at them too.

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gordonscott
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PostPosted: November 25, 2009, 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

just found these photo's of my ride out in the woods and some rock climbing Laughing I can't wait for snow Very Happy other pic's from advrider.com this guy is the real deal, having fun Cool


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Barbara
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PostPosted: November 25, 2009, 3:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Love the pictures! I can really relate to the one in the snow....the foothills up behind my house are white on top, and it is almost time to go play, and take along a rope to wrap around the rear tire for traction.....sidecars are so much fun in the snow!


Great shots!

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Jaelith the XS650 with sidecar
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PostPosted: December 7, 2009, 10:02 am    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

First snow here in new england so had to go for a ride Very Happy 32deg and it felt a lot colder on the main roads at speed, burrrrrr Shocked still need tires for the xs rig?


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PostPosted: December 15, 2009, 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Hi Guys, Well bought some new tires for the xs rig and will be here soon. After riding a bit with the leading link I decided a few changes would make it even better. So I added some vertical brace and a horizontal brace on top of the shock mounts. VERY strong now and feel like they should withstand a lot of abuse Very Happy will post when all together with new tires. p.s. Benny the cat was begging to be in picture Rolling Eyes


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PostPosted: December 16, 2009, 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

Hello, Got the front end installed last night now just waiting on tires, was going to wait on posting till they came in but O what the hell. I appreciate all the input and links from you guys. Jayel, I do agree a dampener will do the job, I have one now but it is wimpy so I will get one that’s more “heavy duty” when funds allow. I’ve been doing some reading from some guys that have a lot of experience with leading front ends and they say you get used to the “twitchy” feeling of reduced trail, some even go with zero trail Shocked I was so used to muscling thru turns that it felt very strange to turn with no effort. Strait ahead twitchy feeling is probably somewhat due to tires like you guys said. The tires I got coming are motorcycle tires but have a flatter profile for heavy cruisers and claim high mileage wear because of the flatter profile. I could not get the vintage car tires because the radius was a lot larger and would be super tight fitting in front swing arm if they fit at all? So went with the flattest profile motorcycle tire I could afford (low funds right now) here is the front end with brass bushings and grease fittings installed. I know only a few sidecar people here but it is an xs and maybe fun to watch as I strugle to learn about these complicated beasts Rolling Eyes maybe someday someone wanting a sidecar on there xs will find this thread and can learn from all this trial and error Question


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jayel
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PostPosted: December 16, 2009, 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

gooding look yes a heavier dampener should stabilize the steering, is there a lot of difference in the steering between slow speed and higher speeds? don't know if you found these sites

autos.groups.yahoo.com...T/messages

www.cyclesidecar.com/p...Manual.pdf

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PostPosted: December 17, 2009, 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

jayel wrote:
gooding look yes a heavier dampener should stabilize the steering, is there a lot of difference in the steering between slow speed and higher speeds? don't know if you found these sites

autos.groups.yahoo.com...T/messages

www.cyclesidecar.com/p...Manual.pdf
Hi Jayel, The only thing I can tell is the faster you go the more “twitchy” it felt, very slight touch would have rig twitch not wobble if that makes any sence Question , before I had to put some muscle into it. NO front end wobbles at any speed (only went to 60 or so). Before I would have a wobble on take off to 8-10mph or so but now nothing. Also I could not take a hand off bars at speed without feeling the wobble come on but now can take both hands off bars at 40mph and is like a car with perfect alignment, not even a shake. I think with the upgrades I’ve done ,better dampener and flatter profile tiers it will be fine. So in short no wobble at any speed now, very easy to turn (too easy) with or without passenger and even up hill left hand turns are a breeze (left up hill most force needed on bars with sidecars) it was just the “twitchy” steering on strait ways at speed that had me wondering? I have the handbook but will have to sign up to yahoo to see the other link, thanks Jayel

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PostPosted: December 18, 2009, 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

scott;
when you put on the front brake does the bike rise up in the front as a earles does? Thats something i always liked about them no dive when on the brakes.

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PostPosted: December 20, 2009, 9:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

This bike is for sale real close to me he wants like 4 thousand




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PostPosted: December 20, 2009, 10:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

is that a flathead? figure about 55 mph top end
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PostPosted: December 21, 2009, 12:41 am    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

jayel wrote:
is that a flathead? figure about 55 mph top end
1958 Dnepr Russian motorcycle/sidecar 750cc motor, 4spd tranny with reverse

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PostPosted: December 27, 2009, 5:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Hi Barb and other sidecar folk

royfisk wrote:
scott;
when you put on the front brake does the bike rise up in the front as a earles does? Thats something i always liked about them no dive when on the brakes.
Hi Roy, Actually there is no dive or lift! It is a combination of the way the brakes are mounted to the axel and not to the swing arm, and the fact that the front axel and pivot point of the forward facing swing arm are on the same vertical plane that gives this effect. If the swingarm pivot was below the front axel you would have dive during braking, if above the front axel you would have lift during braking, but on the same vertical plane you have neither. Hope this makes sense?



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