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1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun
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rtaylor522
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PostPosted: April 22, 2009, 11:29 pm    Post subject: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

So I've got the carbs mostly re-built...still cant get the slide loose in one, and I refuse to ruin the diaphragm by spraying carb cleaner up there....But anyways, now that I have the air boxes, carbs, fuel tank, and petcocks off to be cleaned/rebuilt, I'm wondering the big question........

How hard is it to pull the engine off this thing? I have an outstanding offer from my bro-inlaw to have a guy do a top end overhaul on this thing...hone or re-sleeve cylinders, valve job, etc. Just can't decide since it ran before whether I want to go to the trouble of pulling the whole thing off. I'm trying to work on a budget, and the overhaul will be mostly at cost, but I need to do a couple odds and ends on the bottom also (shift rod seal and bushing, and some other junk I can't remember. Also needs a new cam adjuster I'm pretty sure.

How do you know if you need a new cam chain?

I guess thats it for now....I can see how these things become money pits

Well It will be a slow process, but atleast having answers to these questions will let me know how far I want to go
THANKS!

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Retiredgentleman
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PostPosted: April 23, 2009, 12:24 am    Post subject: Re: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

The engine can be removed very easily. It does weigh about 165 lbs though. It's a good idea to use a couple of pipes with some nylon slings, and 2 guys to lift it out. It comes out on the right side.

An indication of camchain wear, would be if the chain adjuster was screwed fully inward towards the engine, indicating that the chain was stretched. Do you know the history of the engine i.e. how many miles or kms on the chain. The camchains are quite durable. I replaced mine on my recent overhaul. The engine had 19,800 kms, but the chain I took out was not badly worn.

I wouldn't order parts until you open up the engine and have a good look at the parts. Maybe have someone with engine knowledge have a look at the parts.
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rtaylor522
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PostPosted: April 24, 2009, 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

RG, Decisions Decisions....They history is sketchy at best, but I figure that engine has in the 20-30 thousand mile range on it. Although I could be high, and It did undergo a partial rebuild from the PO. I guess my big hang up is the bike ran before I let it sit. The left cylinder if you look at some of my original posts had some sort of a problem though....symptoms:

1. White smoke on start up unless engine was hot
2. looks like some sort of oil leak on left cylinder around head gasket (black oil, not heavy, on cooling fins)
3. Seems to be a little wetness around base gasket by cam chain tensioner housing.
4. Right exhaust pipe = bone dry, Left Exhaust pipe has oily residue all over it.

I'm pretty sure the timing has'nt been done for some time, and i'm not sure how to do it, although I'm sure I can figure it out.

The rest of the problems on the bike to my knowledge should be pretty small and fixable things, although I was thinking how often should the drive chain be changed, and how much lash should it have in it?

Anyone with answers (also read as *ideas*) feel free to chime in!
Thanks!

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gordo
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PostPosted: April 24, 2009, 10:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

rtaylor, the white smoke could be just condensation in the exhaust. The oil, check the valve cover's, could be missalighned or a bad gasket.Check the head torque. Jayel has a very good thread some where here, give's good thing's to check, even for us regulars to use after winter storage. Wet left cylinder, probably carb problem(varnish from old gas,ect. Happen's alot ). Get a manual from mikesxs.com. Will be very helpfull. Gordo
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PostPosted: April 24, 2009, 10:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

Yeah, its a judgement thing. Depends on how many leaks you can live with, and how much oil is the engine consuming. gordo has some good ideas there. Take off the top engine stay, and do a re-torque. Try running for a while and just see how everything is working.

Too many guys have had the heads off these bikes, and don't re-assemble them correctly.

When I got my bike, it was using a litre of oil every 333 kms. You could see puffs of black smoke out the exhaust. It also had oil dripping in quite a few places from poor assembly. The pistons and heads were carboned up real bad. I believe it was totally due to improper torquing and no re-torque checks.
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rtaylor522
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PostPosted: April 24, 2009, 11:05 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

My left carb was an absolute mess, and kind of always has been. I have them both stripped on the bench right now, and as we speak i'm still working on figuring out how to now free up the left diaphragm assembly without ruining the thing with carb cleaner. I'm actually really curious to see how the thing will run after maybee a head re-torque, properly (as properly as i can) re-built carbs, timing, and cam chain adjustment.

I figure if none of that really gets it running great, It's not all that hard to get it torn back down to where it sits now and pull the engine. If it works, great, if not...well back to the drawing board. I'll check back in for other ideas you guys may come up with, otherwise, i'm goin on vacation soon so i'll be out of the "office" for a week.

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rtaylor522
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PostPosted: April 26, 2009, 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

Wow I just found a post by Jayel about newb's and 650's, and even though I'm not new to the bike, i'm new to doing serious surgery on it...great post, I think I'm going to follow through that for a little while before I do a whole lot more. That plug reading guide will be good, I can't wait to get home and pull them so I can compare them to the chart.
I'll report back!

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rtaylor522
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PostPosted: April 28, 2009, 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

OK...made good progress on the carb re-build today...got the main nozzles out of both carbs, and finally freed up that pesky diaphragm assembly...after copious amounts of simple green and not alot of fun it got it out. also got the choke assembly off, and decided to go ahead and pull the butterfly valves off each carb....man am I glad....all 4 of the butterfly seals were all but junk...a gooey mess.

All jets are out except for 1 pilot jet, and best news is floats and diaphragms both look good. about ready to order parts to re-build...do you guys find it cheaper to buy the rebuild kit because i think my main jets, fuel screws and springs, needles, are all in good shape. I pretty much need stuff thats not in the kit (butterfly seals, choke gasket, main nozzle o-rings etc.)

I guess once I get these re-built it's on to the petcock valves which are a varnished mess, then on to the big stuff (maybee pulling engine etc.)

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jayel
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PostPosted: April 28, 2009, 4:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

those re-build kits are generic so parts may or may not fit you'd be better off just getting what you actually need (if you can find them)
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rtaylor522
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PostPosted: April 29, 2009, 1:02 am    Post subject: Re: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

Looks like Mike's has most of what I need, can't really see anything that he does'nt have on that site for an XS2. Should work out pretty well....I hope
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rtaylor522
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PostPosted: November 2, 2009, 12:48 am    Post subject: Re: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

So no update in a long time....work work work.

Well my engine is finished at the machine shop and has been for some time. I'm going to pick it up from the top end overhaul tomorrow. Only big problem is that I probably wont be riding it before winter since I have so many other projects going on it.

My big question is what should I do to help preserve the top end overhaul over the winter? I was thinking put oil in it, and fog the cylinders with some sort of 4 stroke engine fogger such as used on winterizing boat engines. Also when I go to start the engine the first time does anybody have any "checklist" of sorts to go through to make sure everything is in adjustment from the overhaul before I fire it up? such as cam chain adjustment etc.?

#2 Dissasembled front brake...the pistons were siezed. I'm still working on getting those freed up. The metal brake line that goes into the caliper is stuck and so is the bleeder valve...any suggestions to them free besides P.B. Blaster?

#3 Should the rear brake push bar have any bend in it at all or is it a perfectly straight rod? I believe mine is slightly bent and the rear brake was out of adjustment. When I took apart my rear brake there is a ton of pad left so I'm not sure what the problem is.

#4 I lightly dropped the bike a few years ago and the headlight bowl and left mounting ear were bent. I found a great replacement, but I'm wondering the quickest way to get those mounting ears off and get the new ones on. Looks like the tripple tree will have to be dissassembled in some way is this correct?

Thanks for all the help, I'm up at my bro-inlaws where the bike is working away on it for the next 3 days so I will post back with more progress as I go.

-Rob

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scotts
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PostPosted: November 2, 2009, 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

#1 Put a few drops of Marvel Mystery Oil in the spark plug holes and turn it over by hand.

#2 What's wrong with using PB Blaster? Have you tried air to get the piston out? If the parts are THAT stuck, you're probably looking at a rebuild anyway.

#3 I'm not too familiar with the eraly bikes like yours, but I'm gonna say "NO", the rod should not have a bend in it.

#4 You don't have to remove the triple tree, but you will need to loosen the bolts that hold the forks in and slide them down. Install the new ear(s) when sliding the forks back in. You'll have to remove the headlight and gauges. It's best to remove the front wheel, too, though you could do it with the wheel on if you and a friend felt like fighting it (not reccommended).
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rtaylor522
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PostPosted: November 2, 2009, 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

Thanks Scotts,

I already removed the top part of the tripple tree which was really not cool....got your post too late this morning. Oh well.

Getting ready to put new ATF in the forks and re-assemble.

I'm feeling kind of bummed on this project right now as when I took apart the wiring this morning in the headlight bowl I labled as much as I could but I think I am gonna be up the creek so to say when it comes to reconnecting it all. On the bright side the new mounting ears look good.

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Srinath
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PostPosted: November 2, 2009, 2:32 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

I think pulling the top triple off and sliding it on is actually easier.

It also gives you a good chance to get a look at those loose balls in the neck that yamaha calls a "bearing".

Cool.
Srinath.
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gordo
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PostPosted: November 2, 2009, 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

rtayor, does your master cylinder work? If it does, use that to press out the piston. Ask pump's what happen's when a stuck piston decides to free itself. If the master won't push out the piston, get a metric grease fitting that will fit where the banjo bolt goe's. Hand held grease gun's have up to 10,000 PSI. And because it's grease, it won't fly out of the bore like with air. The lever type gun's produce more pressure, but a pistol grip will do the job.
A little heat where the bleader thread's into the caliper help's along with PB Blaster. A slow, steady pressure will usually free a stuck bleader valve & banjo bolt. Word of caution, the rubber line will 'pop' out of the fitting when heated, so you'll have to get new line's. I'm using the braided steel one's from Mike's. good quality,& cheaper then the rubber line's.
An impact gun could also get the banjo bolt, but be carefull not to break the bolt,it is hollow.
The color's go together, if you can still see them.

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PostPosted: November 2, 2009, 8:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

You can use the air gun to push out the piston in the caliper. Just do it with puffs of air and do not get your finger in the way. Some safety glasses might not be a bad idea. I have a copy of the XS2 wiring diagram if it helps you. I'd have to email it. Send me a PM if you need it. On mine- a 77' , to get the fork ears off the fork tube has to be pulled down and the fork ear slipped over it ot the top tree removed..
Gordo, the piston didn't just pop out all of a sudden. My finger was just in the way and I didn't notice! Still looks like this but the black part has almost grown to the end of the nail. Did this in....early Sept.?

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PostPosted: November 2, 2009, 10:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

Well after a heck of a day that piston is out....Went to the machine shop to pick up engine and while I was there worked on it for a good hour. When 3 of us were gathered around the piston and still could'nt figure it out, the owner of the shop welded a bolt into the center of the piston, and used a puller to get it out. Then he took the piston and lathed out the bolt that he had welded in....Unorthodox to say the least but they said it was the worst stuck piston they had ever seen.

I got my mounting ears on and fork oil changed

Got the front and rear tires back on and got the rear brake adjusted, but thats going to change anyways once I adjust the rear tire when the chain and engine are back on....Rims are somewhat cleaned up so thats nice.

Going to do the petcock re-build kits tonight because leaky petcocks are what ruined my carbs and led to that complete rebuild.

All I hope is that after all this money that the bottom end of that bike works as good as it did when it went to the top end overhaul...I know the parts were'nt really touched, but if this things transmission craps out I'm gonna come unglued....I guess I'm excessivly paranoid

ore updates tomorrow

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tacoswild
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PostPosted: November 3, 2009, 2:31 am    Post subject: Re: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

First time I saw your thread, I have a 71. I noticed you were looking for a choke body gasket at one point, what did you end up doing there? Mike doesn't have one, actually his site says 70-73 carbs didn't have them. I emailed him to let him know this was bad info, they're on there, mentioned clearly in the original yamaha manual and I dug up an old part # for it (was labelled "gasket, starter" but 70-71 don't have an electric starter, refers to choke used for starting.)

He pretty much blew it off. No big deal but that wrong info is still up there.
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rtaylor522
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PostPosted: November 3, 2009, 2:12 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

Hey Tacos,
That carb is still in pieces on my work bench at home. After I install the engine at my brothers house today I'm going home to finish up the carbs. The gasket was on my carbs too, but was ruined during disassembly. Not sure what to do now, and I saw that info also...any ideas?

Got the wiring done today...I guess we'll find out how well I did once I drop some power on the thing but that will be a little while.

Here's the big question I have now:
Went to the barn to take a look at my chain which is in good condition still but I messed up the connecting link during dissassembly. I looked at the chain and it says XDL 530 and the XDL is in a Diamond shape. I did some research and I think the manufacturer is actually called Diamond, and that the chain is a 530 "Xtra Dura Lube". I could only find that chain in a 100 Link model and Mikes says the 72 takes a 98 link chain, so I guess it's back to the barn to count....i rode the bike for a few thousand miles and two years before it sat and never had the chain jump, and the sprokets are in good condition so I'm not quite sure what I've got going on here.

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PostPosted: November 3, 2009, 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

Good to hear there is some progress on your 'early one'.

Those paper gaskets are a pain, one-use only! I had a look at the diagrams on cmsnl.com and they show the gasket on the xs1 diagram, with no reference, and don;t show it at all on the xs2 diagram.

I have had good luck making gaskets from the sheets of material you can buy from the hardware store (Canadian Tire). Make sure you use the fuel proof one, usually the black paper or the cork for thicker gaskets. I had to make a fuel pump gasket for my VW and it has held up well; it is on the pressurized side of the pump. It helps if you have the remainders of the old gasket to work against. X-acto knife and patience!
Conversely I would order the '74 style gasket from Mikes and see if it fits.

The chain on your bike may have been trimmed to 98 links, or if there is a bigger rear sprocket, it may fit. There may be enough room on the chain tensioners to fit 100 links anyway. Fairly easy to shorten a chain, just grind off the end of a pin with a dremel and drive it out.

ake sure you get an EXACT fit when you replace that masterlink, there is some variation in sizes, especially if your chain is heavy duty. A little off and you can end up dropping the chain when riding... happened to me this summer... clang, revs go up, power goes off, damn... I coasted over to the side of the road and the helpful soul in the car behind stopped and called "hey, your chain fell off!!".
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PostPosted: November 3, 2009, 8:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

rtaylor522 wrote:
when I took apart the wiring this morning in the headlight bowl I labled as much as I could but I think I am gonna be up the creek so to say when it comes to reconnecting it all.

As you discovered later, the multi-pin connectors will only connect to the correct mate, because all the connectors are different, and with the rest you just match the colors. Easy peazy lemon squeezy.
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PostPosted: November 3, 2009, 8:32 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

Seems like maybe one pair is aluminum instead of brass or something too, I forget.
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PostPosted: November 3, 2009, 8:38 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

The choke gasket on mine is still hanging in there, but I think JeffM is right, you probably have to cut your own. If I remember right there's only a few round holes in it, nothing too complicated.

I also cut a few links off a longer chain, but I think Mike has the right length chain for sale.
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rtaylor522
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PostPosted: November 4, 2009, 1:09 am    Post subject: Re: 1972 XS2 Resto Has Begun

So Update for the day:

Chain must be a "Diamond Brand" XDL....it has 98 links...I counted. I'll order the new master link online soon.

Engine is installed and mounted. Found out the machine shop forgot to put one of those alignment pins back on the advance unit shaft...so I installed that...I found it in the parts bag.

Wiring is done being reconnected except I found a big black cable that comes off of some box on the left side of the frame. Looks like some sort of grounding strap, but I can't for the life of me remember where I took it off of....I think it might be the main ground for the bike but I dont' have a picture.

Pretty much at a stand still now until I order the parts and finish the carbs, get a new headlight chrome ring and glass light cover....dropped it...I suck, I know....new plug wires, and apparently make a gasket for the carbeurator. Once all that is done, I have to get a battery and see how good my memory on the wiring was...probably have the blinkers going the wrong way or something stupid.

Thanks for all the info.

P.S. anyone have a good checklist to run before trying to fire this thing up the first time? besides Air Spark Fuel? i know its going to need help with the timing as thats not been done and my use of the search function is pretty abysmal

-Rob

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