evaluating bushings in swing arm off of bike

xjwmx

My swing arm had some customizing I didn't like - so I found a replacement one pretty cheap, supposedly off an '84.

It has bushings in it, plastic, and they seem to be ok. No obvious wear on the plastic. The steel tube appears greased and I don't see any obvious wear and seems to be very tight in the bushings (won't move). How to evaluate and maybe use these bushings and tube as is?

Also, I was surprised that the "bushings" that we're all replacing with bronze aren't really the bearing surface. THe bearing surface (against the pivot bolt) appears to be the metal tube. The bushings, plastic or bronze, seem to be just a spacer supporting the steel tube inside. I think I might just get a new bolt and use this swing arm, bushings, tube, as is.

yamaman

5-8. SWING ARM
A. Inspection
1. Free play inspection
Remove rear wheel and shock absorbers.
Grasp the swing arm and move it from
side to side as shown. There should be no
noticeable side play.
I Swing arm freeplay: 1 mm (0.4 in)
1
II
2. If freeplay is excessive, remove swing arm
and replace swing arm bushing.

xjwmx

yamaman wrote:

...
2. If freeplay is excessive, remove swing arm
and replace swing arm bushing.

Weeeel, I guess I'll get a new bolt and put it through and see how much wear there is in the tube. I would bet when they say 'bushing' they really mean that steel tube in the middle. THe plastic or bronze parts supporting it wouldn't wear much, compared to the two steel parts.

yamaman

No, the bushing that Yamaha refer to is the plastic bushing:

www.xs650.de/literatur...hrwerk.pdf

xjwmx

In that case, the plastic bushings are tight as glue in the swing arm, and the steel tube is tight as glue in the plastic bushings, so I'm set to go.

yamaman

Your probably right, the originals aren't that bad, plenty of them still going strong!
Just pay to check as per the manual, after you torque up the pivot bolt.

I think the big market in the bronze bushings is that they are easier to make than setting up a plastic run. When people (who have worn bushes) pull them down and see plastic, their immediate thought is "no bloody wonder it's stuffed, it's flamin plastic!"

So the aftermarket supplier turns up a couple of peices of bronze, and says look at what I got for you.

It makes an incredible difference (as the originals were toast) and the happy owner shouts praise to the world!

New plastic bushes would have given him/her just as big a smile!

any Yamaha's have the same plastic bushes!

xjwmx

Since I've got ya, and I assume it's ok to hijack my own thread, do I need TWO of those special wrenches to tighten the steering nuts - one to turn and one to hold while locking the other nut against? Is the $2 shock preload adjustement wrench as good for this as the $10 steering nut wrench?

yamaman

Well, some will probably scorn, but I'm a bit of a butcher there, I just use a hammer & pin punch!

I'm not sure if the sizes are the same, someone nearby should know?

You could buy the right one for the job, I'd probably go for a adjustable one so you can use it anywhere! Like this:

brooksuspension.co.uk/...p-413.html

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

The swing arm bolt tube that runs through the bushings is longer than the swing arm is wide. When the swing arm bolt is tightened up the frame binds against the swing arm tubing. The tubing then acts as a part of the frame and the swing arm swivels on the tube. If your tubing is seized against your bushings then no matter how much grease is in there it will not be working properly, in effect the bolt tube will be swiveling on the grease seals. Before i would use those bushings i would free up the tubing then make an assessment.

5twins · Full Member Joined: Aug 05, 2006 Posts: 1616

deleted

xjwmx

Thanks 5, will do. 650 - an interesting development! I'm lovin' that design less and less.

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

5twins, skull -- don't forget to tell him how and where to drill and tap the hole in the swingarm so he can mount a grease zerk there.

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

If you buy a new bolt tube and swing arm bolt from mikes then there is no need to drill and tap a grease nipple into the swing arm. Chances are if your tube is seized onto you bushings then the bushings are brittle, for piece of mind i would replace the lot.
Jimmy, if you have something to add, do it if you know what your talking about Wink

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

Had I known exactly what I was talking about, I would have told him all about it. I thought the drill and tap routine was standard practice. I got that idea from reading the threads on this site. But I don't know how to do it, and so I left it to those who do. You're one of them -- aren't you?

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

jimmy the swing arms on 2 of my bikes had them done when i got them. But it would be a simple job. Remove the swing arm and tube then clean out all the grease, get the right size drill bit and drill through the swing arm (making sure the grease nipple wont foul on the frame when finished) then tap the hole with the right tap size and thread for the grease nipple. Make sure to de bur the drilled hole and REMOVE ALL iron fillings. .....As said previously with mikes new tube and bush this is not necessary.
The bronze bushings have 2 spiraled groves cut into them for the grease to get between the tube and bushings

xjwmx

A couple of taps with a hammer and socket knocked the tube out. One end was galled and rusted, so I hope the one still in the bike is better. Since there was abrasion inside one of the plastic bushings, I popped them out too. They were in fact pretty brittle. Very easy to crack the plastic loose.

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

650skull wrote:

jimmy the swing arms on 2 of my bikes had them done when i got them. But it would be a simple job. Remove the swing arm and tube then clean out all the grease, get the right size drill bit and drill through the swing arm (making sure the grease nipple wont foul on the frame when finished) then tap the hole with the right tap size and thread for the grease nipple. Make sure to de bur the drilled hole and REMOVE ALL iron fillings. .....As said previously with mikes new tube and bush this is not necessary.
The bronze bushings have 2 spiraled groves cut into them for the grease to get between the tube and bushings

I've got Mike's improved bolt and tube and Mike's new bushings installed, with new grease seals. I packed the swingarm tube AND the bolt tube full of grease before I stuck the bolt through it. Then I tightened the nuts on the ends of the bolts and installed new zerks on both ends. Just to see what would happen, I plugged a grease gun on the new zerks. Neither one of them would take so much as one squirt. I weigh 280 lbs. I put the grease gun on the floor and put my whole weight on the pump handle. The zerks will not accept grease.

THAT'S when I found out about installing the center zerk. I haven't tried it yet. They tell me to put it in the center, on the bottom of the swingarm. Is that right? I haven't tried it yet because 1) the thing is already packed with grease; 2) I don't have any way to raise the bike so I can get under there with a drill; 3) I don't wanna tear the thing apart right now because I'm not riding the bike anyway; 4) all of which together means that I don't know if the center zerk trick will work or not, which is why I didn't advise our nooby to try it. I figured you guys would know.

What have I done to my install that was wrong?

xsleo

On my 75 I put in the new bushings, I didn't add a grease fitting in the swing arm. I didn't know about when I did mine.
When I changed my oil the other day I hooked the grease gun to the right side zerk. Pumped it about ten strokes. Went to the other side, grease was coming out around the head of the pivot bolt.
I think the only way this can happen is for the grease to go in the zerk, in the axle , out in between the bushing and pivot tube, fills the swingarm, in between the other sides bushing and pivot tube, thru the frame along the bolt and out around the head.
If this is what happens then I don't need so many pumps of grease, and the bolt zerks do grease the pivot tube and bushings.

650skull · Support Staff Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 1186

I have yet to grease my swing arm since I've put it together, went to do it before and can't find my grease gun. got a few other things to do so will get back to it in a couple of days (and find my gun). Does not make seance jimmy, the grease should travel to the brass bushings. have you checked for anything restricting the grease in the bolt......Would not drill and tap with the swing arm on the bike, iron filings or larger in there would not be good........Whoever put the grease nipple in my swing arm made a hash of it. They welded a nut, (to take the nipple), over the drilled hole in the swing arm and it was towards the top of the swing arm so when the nipple was installed and the upwards movement of the swing arm while riding caused the nipple to hit the frame 8O. Had to cut some thread off of it to make it work without hitting the frame. No problem if it had been drilled and taped in the swing arm with a 45 degree grease nipple ..........If it is mounted on the bottom of the swing arm the only negative i could think of is if an object struck it it could get damaged in some way

I guess a Zerk is a quaint American saying for grease nipple

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

Nipple, Zerk, the two words are interchangeable in garages here stateside.

I agree that what I've told you doesn't make any sense. Still, it's all perfectly true. It's also true that my hardware is correctly installed, which is why I don't know what to do. It wouldn't take grease with the old, worn-out bushes in place. It won't take grease now with the new bolt, tube, and bushes installed.

Like I said, I shot everything full of grease before I assembled the parts. I figured that grease would squirt out past the seals when I added more with the grease gun. Instead I found that it won't take grease at all, just like before I replaced those old, worn-out parts.

I even went so far as to pull one zerk off the thing, thinking the new zerks might not pass grease for some reason. I plugged that new zerk into the grease gun on the bench, pumped the gun, and found it passes grease perfectly. Screw it back onto the bike, it won't pass grease at all. So the problem is NOT the zerks. The problem is inside.

Because everything is correctly installed (unless somebody knows something I don't -- and that's entirely possible), I'm stuck with the conclusion that Mike's improved bushes, bolt and swingarm tube are no improvement at all. Mike?

yamaman

Jimmy, do you recall if your bronze bushes had the spiral grooves cut in the inside? This helps the grease travel through.

Also grease can get hard if it's been there a while & cold.

The best way to get grease flowing again (did it ever flow?) is either heat (park it in the sun for a day, heat lamps, electric fan heater or gentle oxy) or movement.

If you pump up the grease gun as hard as you can & cable tie the trigger on hard, then bounce up & down on the bike. That can help with a blockage. I've done both methods many times (though artificial heat works better than waiting for the sun) on trucks with 99% success!

Failing that, I think that you'll have to pull it down to find out why!

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

yamaman -- Yes, the bushes are spiral grooved. I put this together with all new parts last July when ambient temp was somewhere near 90 degrees F. I used lightweight, white, lithium grease. I did everything else just as I told you and the result was as I said.

I've already decided I'll have to tear it down again, unless somebody tells me something I haven't done correctly. I've only been waiting for warm weather, meanwhile hoping somebody will tell me how I goofed and save me the hassel of another teardown.

It's 40 degrees here as I write, and my garage is unheated. It was 60 degrees on Saturday, when I did get out for a while. But the landlady made me fire up the tiller (which has buckhorn bars on it, by the way) and plow up enough ground to seed in this year's root-vegetable crop. Onions, radishes, horseradish, beets, turnips, parsnips and carrots all went into the ground. There wasn't time for swingarm bushes and besides: I don't know how deep to plant 'em.

yamaman

Probably for starters, I'd just jack up the bike & knock the pivot bolt out to the first grease hole & try & pump some grease through then, see what happens!

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

I used my handy dandy two-foot, 1/2" drive breaker bar to tighten the bolt when I put it together. Is it possible I got it too tight: the grease seals are pressed so hard against the end of the swingarm tube that grease can't squirt out past 'em?

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