650Rider, xs650 hosted by XS650.com

What Happened to 650rider.com?

650 Rider went offline for about a month at the beginning of 2010. In order to save the technical information that was here, XS650.com acquired the site and brought it back online as a read-only archive. If you were a member of 650 Rider, you will need to re-register at XS650.com

Search 650Rider.com and XS650.com using Google!

        650Rider Menu
 Community  Information


xs650 > > After Market Products > > Pamco - Electronic Ignitions > > Help please: confused already...


Help please: confused already...
Go to page 1, 2  Next
    Forum Index -> Pamco - Electronic Ignitions
Author Message
TeeCat
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: Aug 21, 2007
Posts: 1120
Location: Central Maryland

PostPosted: April 11, 2009, 10:53 am    Post subject: Help please: confused already...

Pete et al -

I have gotten as far as removing my replacement stock coils on the '73. Someone has been into this harness - not sure why - but I might be still fairly stock here. There were bullet connectors used throughout with sheathes covering them.

The left coil had an orange (red?) and a brown wire to each of its terminals. What remains on the bike after I disconnected and removed the left coil are three wires - one orange (red?) that was to the pos on the coil, one brown to the neg, and a third that goes to the replacement condenser. Ar least one of these wires originates from the points assembly.

On the right side, there's one wire with a spade connector that was apparently a ground to the mounting plate for the coils, a red wire with a female bullet connector, and a brown wire with a female bullet connector; these two wires' connectors are in one protective sheathe.

So I'm really confused as to how I make these connections. Do I connect the red wire from the Pamco to the existing red wire coming off the harness, or to the coil's pos? And it appears that I might need both male bullet and female spade connectors... depending. Still deciding whether I need to solder. The connectors I'm using are either insulated female, or male with the plastic sleeves over the crimp surface.

Sorry for all the questions... I don't want to booger this up.

Running out to get some grounding clamps...

Thanks -

TC

EDIT:

The three wires on the left side were pos, neg, and condenser. All came off and will disappear when I pull the points out, so that's not a worry. I'm just going to leave the condenser in place and tuck its leads out of the way for now.

But I still have the connection questions: coming off the harness, I still have one red female bullet wire, one brown female bullet wire (in the same connector sheathe), and the ground (can I use it in addition to the Pamco ground or just tuck it away?).

Oh, and all the connectors I can find seem to be designed for crimping.
Back to top
Photo Gallery
TeeCat
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: Aug 21, 2007
Posts: 1120
Location: Central Maryland

PostPosted: April 11, 2009, 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Help please: confused already...

I finally got the dual point coil mounted. That was a chore on an early bike for a number of silly little reasons.

Now I'm trying to get the points assy off. Reading my Haynes, it seems to me that the whole unit, base plate and all, should come right out after loosening the two outer slotted screws, but they won't budge. I don't want to force them. Is there a trick to removing these components without damaging anything?

Still need help with my earlier questions when someone gets a moment.

Thanks -

TC
Back to top
Photo Gallery
pamcopete
650Rider Supporter
650Rider Supporter


Joined: Oct 10, 2008
Posts: 875
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: April 11, 2009, 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Help please: confused already...

TeeCat

There are various wiring colors for the coils, depending on the year and model. What year and model do you have, and is the wiring stock?

The base plate does come off after loosening the screws in the slots, but you should remove the points cam first.

_________________
Ride.Enjoy.Life is simple
Back to top
pumps
650Rider Supporter
650Rider Supporter


Joined: May 29, 2007
Posts: 1993
Location: Kansas City, Missouri, U.S.A.- 1977 XS650 "D" Standard

PostPosted: April 11, 2009, 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Help please: confused already...

Tee cat, on my 77:
One red/white striped coming from the harness. There were two oranges and two browns? I think coming from the harness too. One of each went to each of the two wires on the old coils. The orange and the browns after removal of the old stuff are just loops of wire into the harness and that can be check with a continuity test. A black ground going to a screw on the top engine mount.
New install is three wires from the new pamco. The red plugs into one side of the dual connector on the red/white striped wire with a male bullet connector. Green from the pamco plugs onto one side of the new coil (I bought the new single coil) with a female connector. Other wire from the pamco, I forget the color? Black? is tied in with the old black ground to the top mount.
A new red wire I fabbed from the new coil( female spade connector) to the other side of the red dual female connector with a male bullet connector.

Pete did I get that right?

_________________
You don't HAVE to be crazy to run into burning buildings, but it HELPS!
On an XS you won't pass yourself on the road everyday. Wink

My Bikes
Back to top
Photo Gallery
TeeCat
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: Aug 21, 2007
Posts: 1120
Location: Central Maryland

PostPosted: April 11, 2009, 4:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Help please: confused already...

Pete -

I finally got the points assy out... the screws did have anti-seize on them, but they needed a little gentle persuasion with a hand-held impact wrench.

The bike's a '73 TX. Someone appears to have re-wrapped parts of the harness, but the orange wires went to the positives on the coils, the brown (look more like tan) went to the negatives, and the third (black, I think) was a ground to the coil mounting plate. One of the orange wires seems to come from the battery and I suppose has to go to the new coil's positive, but what about the red one from the Pamco?

Also, how far is the rotor supposed to slide onto the splined shaft? Mine doesn't seem to want to go very far. Consequently I accidentally pushed the rod out far enough that my weights closed. I got it back in by puling the weights open and jiggling the rod - hope I didn't turn it 180 degrees - but I don't think the rotor is on all the way.

Sorry for all the questions... electronics and wiring spook me. I just don't "get it" so I want to keep this simple.

EDIT: pumps, you're making sense to me, pretty much, but I need to be sure before I start deciding what needs male and female and start crimping fittings on wires. I want to do this once, correctly. There does seem to be one red wire coming from the harness, but it's a female connector in a "dual" weatherproof sheath with another wire. And how do I tie those two grounds together? See, I'm telling you... you may as well be talking to a child with this stuff. Embarassed

Quote::
There were two oranges and two browns? I think coming from the harness too. One of each went to each of the two wires on the old coils. The orange and the browns after removal of the old stuff are just loops of wire into the harness and that can be check with a continuity test. A black ground going to a screw on the top engine mount.
New install is three wires from the new pamco. The red plugs into one side of the dual connector on the red/white striped wire with a male bullet connector.

Okay... this is making sense... all of this is true in my bike's case, I think. just have to make sure my connectors fit and crimp them on the appropriate wires.

Quote::
A new red wire I fabbed from the new coil( female spade connector) to the other side of the red dual female connector with a male bullet connector.

This part didn't make any sense to me... sorry. Sad

I just checked: there are THREE relevant wires remaining on the bike, coming from the harness. Two are in a dual female bullet connector; one is red/white, and the other is brown. The third appears to have been the ground to the frame. But the dual connector wires are defininatly red/white, and brown.

TC
Back to top
Photo Gallery
pumps
650Rider Supporter
650Rider Supporter


Joined: May 29, 2007
Posts: 1993
Location: Kansas City, Missouri, U.S.A.- 1977 XS650 "D" Standard

PostPosted: April 11, 2009, 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Help please: confused already...

The brown is not used. You can remove or I taped mine up, same as the oranges. The red/white coming from the has has two female bullet openings. Red from Pamco plate in one side. Make a red one to go from the other open female bullet spot in the dual connector to the spade connection on the coil. Other spade on the coil connects to the green from the pamco. The ground, I soldered a ring connector onto and mounted it on the same screw as the old ground. Hope this helps.
_________________
You don't HAVE to be crazy to run into burning buildings, but it HELPS!
On an XS you won't pass yourself on the road everyday. Wink

My Bikes
Back to top
Photo Gallery
TeeCat
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: Aug 21, 2007
Posts: 1120
Location: Central Maryland

PostPosted: April 11, 2009, 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Help please: confused already...

Pumps, it helps, but what I'm saying - and what is confusing me - is that the dual female on my bike has TWO wires - one red/white, and the other appears brown. In other words, the "open" connector on the dual female appears to go to that brown wire. That's what's got me stymied. See below... the only three relevant wires:



Here's how I mounted my coil.



TC
Back to top
Photo Gallery
pumps
650Rider Supporter
650Rider Supporter


Joined: May 29, 2007
Posts: 1993
Location: Kansas City, Missouri, U.S.A.- 1977 XS650 "D" Standard

PostPosted: April 11, 2009, 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Help please: confused already...

I see. Have you got a wiring diagram? I can't recall exactly..Looking at my diagram going FROM the old coils was on one coil, a single orange going to orange going to one points breaker and condenser double connector on one side and red/white stripe plugging into the double connector one the other side. Red/white stripe going into the main harness. Coil #2 red/white stripe plugged into the second spot on the double connector. Second wire off coil #2 , gray going to other points breaker and condenser at a double connector.

I mounted my coil going that way at first until I figured out Pete showed his mounted going the other way so I switched it.

That other wires not going to the condensers is it?

_________________
You don't HAVE to be crazy to run into burning buildings, but it HELPS!
On an XS you won't pass yourself on the road everyday. Wink

My Bikes
Back to top
Photo Gallery
TeeCat
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: Aug 21, 2007
Posts: 1120
Location: Central Maryland

PostPosted: April 11, 2009, 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Help please: confused already...

jayel has a diagram on here, and I looked at it, but frankly I'm not at all confident in my ability to read it well enough to make a move on this. Essentially, my choices are really limited here, but I want to be absolutely sure before I start crimping. I just haven't been able to determine what that brown wire is. Now I wish I had photographed the original configuration, but it's too late to look back now, so I have to solve this somehow.

TC
Back to top
Photo Gallery
jayel
650Rider Supporter
650Rider Supporter


Joined: Apr 16, 2006
Posts: 3417
Location: SE Iowa 1974 TX650A

PostPosted: April 11, 2009, 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Help please: confused already...

Teecat that red/white should be the coil feed switched from the kill switch, put a meter on it and check, the brown in the same connection is probably coming from the safety relay but they were to cheap to change colors, they are the hot wires to the coil(s) the other side (wires) of the coils go to ground thru the point/condensers
_________________
all it takes is time and money -- Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket?
Back to top
Photo Gallery
TeeCat
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: Aug 21, 2007
Posts: 1120
Location: Central Maryland

PostPosted: April 11, 2009, 8:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Help please: confused already...

Quote::
they are the hot wires to the coil(s) the other side (wires) of the coils go to ground thru the point/condensers

jayel, now we might be getting somewhere. The other side wiring is gone now... it came off with the points and dual coils. What I am getting at is that, in order to finish this installation, I need to know exactly how to hook up the new dual output coil with the remaining wires.

I'm not worried about the ground or the green wire. But I'm stumped as to how I use these remaining wires to go between the new coil and the Pamco.

But you're saying that those red/white and brown wires fed my stock coils, right? The condenser and points-side wiring is gone now.

TC
Back to top
Photo Gallery
jayel
650Rider Supporter
650Rider Supporter


Joined: Apr 16, 2006
Posts: 3417
Location: SE Iowa 1974 TX650A

PostPosted: April 11, 2009, 8:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Help please: confused already...

"But you're saying that those red/white and brown wires fed my stock coils, right?" yes, so they should also feed your new coil
_________________
all it takes is time and money -- Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket?
Back to top
Photo Gallery
TeeCat
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: Aug 21, 2007
Posts: 1120
Location: Central Maryland

PostPosted: April 11, 2009, 8:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Help please: confused already...

Okay, now we might be in business. At the moment, I'm thinking I need to:

- make a red (18-22guage wire?) lead to connect the female connector on the red/white wire to the positive terminal on the coil, and

- connect the red wire from the Pamco to the female connector on that brown feed wire.

Then the ground from the Pamco gets bolted with the factory ground to the frame, and the green wire from the Pamco goes to the negative lead on the coil.

Sound right?

TC
Back to top
Photo Gallery
jayel
650Rider Supporter
650Rider Supporter


Joined: Apr 16, 2006
Posts: 3417
Location: SE Iowa 1974 TX650A

PostPosted: April 11, 2009, 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Help please: confused already...

don't know the pamco wiring
_________________
all it takes is time and money -- Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket?
Back to top
Photo Gallery
pumps
650Rider Supporter
650Rider Supporter


Joined: May 29, 2007
Posts: 1993
Location: Kansas City, Missouri, U.S.A.- 1977 XS650 "D" Standard

PostPosted: April 11, 2009, 10:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Help please: confused already...

jayel wrote:
probably coming from the safety relay

Does a 73 HAVE a safety relay? If so what does it do? Keep you from engaging the starter while running? Maybe I'm thinking of side stand relay.

" make a red (18-22guage wire?) lead to connect the female connector on the red/white wire to the positive terminal on the coil"
That much is correct but I'm unsure about the other wire as mine didn't have that wire I don't think.

_________________
You don't HAVE to be crazy to run into burning buildings, but it HELPS!
On an XS you won't pass yourself on the road everyday. Wink

My Bikes
Back to top
Photo Gallery
TeeCat
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: Aug 21, 2007
Posts: 1120
Location: Central Maryland

PostPosted: April 11, 2009, 10:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Help please: confused already...

pumps. Pete was saying that my bike had two coil wires - a feed for each coil, I suppose - and he had suggested running the red from the Pamco to one feed wire, and the red/white wire to the pos on the new coil. jayel seems to think the only wires I have left are the two feeds and the ground, so I suppose I see no alternative.

I hope Pete can confirm, because I'm committed now.

TC
Back to top
Photo Gallery
pumps
650Rider Supporter
650Rider Supporter


Joined: May 29, 2007
Posts: 1993
Location: Kansas City, Missouri, U.S.A.- 1977 XS650 "D" Standard

PostPosted: April 11, 2009, 10:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Help please: confused already...

Let it sit for a day and wait and see? I'll pull my tank off and look if you like but I can't tonight. I can check on Tuesday...if that'll help.
_________________
You don't HAVE to be crazy to run into burning buildings, but it HELPS!
On an XS you won't pass yourself on the road everyday. Wink

My Bikes
Back to top
Photo Gallery
jayel
650Rider Supporter
650Rider Supporter


Joined: Apr 16, 2006
Posts: 3417
Location: SE Iowa 1974 TX650A

PostPosted: April 11, 2009, 10:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Help please: confused already...

yes the 73 does have a safety relay and the brown wire from it ties into the red/white going from kill switch to the coils, that double connector is just the easest place to tie them together, r/w to one coil, brown to the other, doesn't matter which one it's the same +hot wire for all intents and purposes.... orignal coils would have had a brown (+ lead) and a gray or orange lead for the points side
_________________
all it takes is time and money -- Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket?


Last edited by jayel on April 11, 2009, 10:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
Photo Gallery
Retiredgentleman
650Rider Supporter
650Rider Supporter


Joined: Mar 03, 2007
Posts: 2258
Location: Calgary, Alberta 1978 XS650 SE

PostPosted: April 11, 2009, 10:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Help please: confused already...

TeeCat;
On my bike just as on yours there were 2 feeds to power 2 coils. On my bike they were 2 red/white wires coming from the kill switch. One of my red/whites connects to the coil positive terminal, and the other red/white connects to the red wire from the Pamco circuit board. Pamco green wire connects to the coil negative terminal. Pamco black connects to a good bare metal frame ground.

Your bike has more basic wiring than mine. You won't have 2 red/white wires. My Haynes manual shows your bike to have 2 brown wires feeding the coils.
Back to top
Photo Gallery
jayel
650Rider Supporter
650Rider Supporter


Joined: Apr 16, 2006
Posts: 3417
Location: SE Iowa 1974 TX650A

PostPosted: April 11, 2009, 10:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Help please: confused already...

so there you have it Teecat, + side of coil to that double r/w/brown connection, Pamco Red to same, Pamco Green to -coil and Pamco Black to the frame ground
_________________
all it takes is time and money -- Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket?
Back to top
Photo Gallery
pamcopete
650Rider Supporter
650Rider Supporter


Joined: Oct 10, 2008
Posts: 875
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: April 11, 2009, 10:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Help please: confused already...

Gentlemen,

Sorry I wasn't here today to join in, but it looks like RG has a handle on the situation. I had checked the Clymer for the color code, and I also think that there are two brown wires feeding the two stock coils, so you can connect one of these brown wires to the positive on the coil and the other brown wire to the red wire going to the PAMCO. Black to ground and green to the negative on the coil.

As long as you have the green connected to the negative on the coil, you can't damage anything, even if I am wrong about the two brown wires.

_________________
Ride.Enjoy.Life is simple


Last edited by pamcopete on April 11, 2009, 10:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
Retiredgentleman
650Rider Supporter
650Rider Supporter


Joined: Mar 03, 2007
Posts: 2258
Location: Calgary, Alberta 1978 XS650 SE

PostPosted: April 11, 2009, 10:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Help please: confused already...

What the heck, we may as well have a wiring diagram from a 74 which is likely similar to the 73.
Back to top
Photo Gallery
jayel
650Rider Supporter
650Rider Supporter


Joined: Apr 16, 2006
Posts: 3417
Location: SE Iowa 1974 TX650A

PostPosted: April 11, 2009, 11:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Help please: confused already...

or a 73 TX650 Laughing
_________________
all it takes is time and money -- Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket?
Back to top
Photo Gallery
TeeCat
Full Member
Full Member


Joined: Aug 21, 2007
Posts: 1120
Location: Central Maryland

PostPosted: April 12, 2009, 7:23 am    Post subject: Re: Help please: confused already...

Well, you guys were busy while I slept! I thank you more than you know!

Quote::
I had checked the Clymer for the color code, and I also think that there are two brown wires feeding the two stock coils, so you can connect one of these brown wires to the positive on the coil and the other brown wire to the red wire going to the PAMCO. Black to ground and green to the negative on the coil.

Pete, as per the pictures I posted, it's actually as jayel said... a red/white and a brown. But in any case, they are the wires that I unplugged the previous wires from, so they have to be the right ones. So, I'll proceed to make the connections as you al suggest, but jayel's color description is the most literal one for what I'm looking at out there in the shed.

I'll keep you posted.

Oh... how far should the rotor thread on? How much lateral play should there be in the advance assy shaft? And what gauge wire are our bikes wired with?

Thanks guys... all of you... wish me luck.

TC


Last edited by TeeCat on April 12, 2009, 7:33 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
Photo Gallery
 
    Forum Index -> Pamco - Electronic Ignitions All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2


 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Check out the new Honda CB750 Forum at CB750.com! A site dedicated to the great Honda SOHC and DOHC CB750.

Check out the new Yamaha XS400 Forum at XS400.com!

Yamaha xs650

xs650, xs, 650, forum, links, chopper, custom, yamaha, parts, forum, info, information, bb, bulletin board, XS650
650Rider, Free Unrestricted xs650 forum, Personal photo albums, Post images in Forum, News columns, Daily blog, Links, Event calendar, Information for Yamaha XS650



Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy