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xs650 > > Motorcycle Systems > > Electrical > > Electronic Ignition?


Electronic Ignition?
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krunk
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PostPosted: July 29, 2008, 4:40 pm    Post subject: Electronic Ignition?

Is there a drop in electronic ignition for the XS's?

I remember when I changed my '67 Mustang over form points to electronic ignition the difference was great.
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Retiredgentleman
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PostPosted: July 29, 2008, 10:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition?

It depends on what you are trying to achieve. If you have stock ignition coils such as on the 1970 to 1979, they are on the weak side, with only 13 KV output. You can keep your points and just buy a modern aftermarket dual output coil, which will put out 30 KV. These bikes run really well with points and a modern coil. If you hate points then you can buy systems like the Boyer Branson, but they are pricey. Another option is to go to 650garage.com site and read about the Universal Ignition by pamcopete.
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seattleducati
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PostPosted: July 30, 2008, 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition?

Here's a follow up question for krunk then...if the same boyer ignition that's selling on ebay for $150 for BSA and Triumphs the same exact one Mikes and others sell....less the threaded rod they include for $250+ ???
If it is, why pay $100 more for a threaded rod you can pick up at Lowes for under $5
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xs1961
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PostPosted: July 31, 2008, 6:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition?

True, all my Boyers are Triumph Bonny sets..threaded crossover rod (50p/25c) is the only difference.. People will slag off the Boyer for its price ( though it not expensive over here!) but if youve got the spare cash then definitely go for it..Just fit & forget for years !
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seattleducati
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PostPosted: August 1, 2008, 12:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition?

Anyone have the dimensions of the threaded rod? I'd much rather just spend $150 on ebay than $250.

Thanks,


Edit, I found that the rod is 8mm diameter but still need the length. Looking on 650motorcycles.com, it looks like two alum. spacers, two washers and two dowel pins are included too...so that takes things up to $7.50 spent at Lowes or Home Depot Smile
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Cooltouch
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PostPosted: August 1, 2008, 1:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition?

There is another alternative. Known as a "transistorized assisted ignition system" or more commonly as a "points booster", this is a small electronic assembly that gives one the benefits of an electronic ignition system while still retaining points. Here's a link to one:

www.apogeekits.com/ele...nition.htm

Note the price. You can also purchase a box for it from the same source for another six bucks.

One of the advantages to this system is that points life is extended indefinitely -- your points rubbing block will wear out before the points' contact surfaces will. There are several folks on the Airhead BMW mailing list who have installed this and who report excellent results. I've been meaning to buy one for my R90 -- it's on the 'to do' list.

Best,

ichael

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xs1961
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PostPosted: August 1, 2008, 1:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition?

Seattleduke , I'll post a picture of my spare rod etc tomorrow with dimensions
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Retiredgentleman
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PostPosted: August 1, 2008, 4:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition?

Cooltouch; I had heard about these "points boosters" over the years, and they would be a good addition to any points system. Price is reasonable. I put your link on my favourites list.
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xsjohn
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PostPosted: August 1, 2008, 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition?

Can't imagine not having the stock electronic ignition...retarded just a half a hair.....I have spent 0 time considering spark in 59 thou......god knows I have heard every tale of the unearthly concoctions...look at some of the advance curves....full advance at 2500...just bashes your clutch basket springs all to hell.....mine just starts to move up at 2500......wouldn't trade one of mine for all of them.........including all the stock spinning weights with springs things like the old steam engines..........at least some thought was given to the correct advance curve on the originals and the electronic while the engine is moving from 2000 on up.....and that hasn't changed on mine from day one...............spark ....spark....spark.......but then there has been other problems with mine....plenty for sure but not that one......thank god.....

ight be a good idea to grab a stick with fom the yard and stick it a can of automatic transmission fluid rejuvenor ....dribble a bit of it on the throttle shaft seals (all 4) while it's running ....let the carbs suck it in there .....when they start to fail all hell breaks loose...........maybe that till help........??

xsjohn

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hal0tw0
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PostPosted: August 1, 2008, 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition?

can later elec ignitions systems be retrofitted to points bikes? Whats involved?
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xsjohn
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PostPosted: August 1, 2008, 8:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition?

A step backwards is good when affronted by a city bus when stepping off the curb........xsjohn
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hal0tw0
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PostPosted: August 1, 2008, 9:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition?

xs elec ignition that bad eh? I thought you were just raving about it Confused
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5twins
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PostPosted: August 1, 2008, 11:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition?

If you think about it, up until the late '70s/early '80s, just about every motor in the whole world ran on points. The world didn't come to an end, the stock market didn't crash, heck, gas was cheap and love was nearly free. The music was better and, well, the pot was cheaper, too .... boy am I hungry, where'd I put those cookies .... Smile
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xs1961
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PostPosted: August 2, 2008, 4:40 am    Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition?

Electronic ignition bad?..no..Points worse?..no..

I have an old valve radio still in good working order , would I say it was better than my new DAB radio because its lasted 60 years?
Ive got bikes with both systems..The Boyers are definitely crisper & never need adjustment ..
Points are basic & you can fix them ..
Horses for courses...


Last edited by xs1961 on August 3, 2008, 4:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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pumps
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PostPosted: August 2, 2008, 10:51 am    Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition?

Cooltouch- How/where does that transistorized assisted ignition install? I definitely like the price over the Boyer and like the idea of going easy on the points. Is there a page somewhere that walks thru an installation, even if it's on an airhead? And I typed transistorized and correctly spelled it the FIRST time, I'm SO proud of myself!
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BiffTirkle
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PostPosted: August 2, 2008, 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition?

hal0tw0
yes, you can install an electronic ignition to your older points bikes. there are a few variations floating around out there. but the most common and popular is the boyer ignition. as you read here on the site, some hate it, some love it. id say more like the results than dont. im putting it on my project bike, and i think i will use this points assisted module on my current bike.

cooltouch, im asking the same question as pumps, where in the circuit does this module fit? sounds great, ill buy one as soon as i find out more about how to install it.

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Retiredgentleman
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PostPosted: August 2, 2008, 12:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition?

I think the installation of the "points booster" would be reasonably simple. The hardest part might be finding a location to mount it..............under the tank on the frame? All that would be required is: points wired to the board, coil primary wired to the board, and a battery connection from the ignition fuse. It says it includes an assembly and installation manual.
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BiffTirkle
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PostPosted: August 2, 2008, 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition?

i assume it would be relatively simple. for me at least. not tooting my own horn or anything. so, if it does come with assembly and installation manual. ill buy it. hell its under 30 bucks. and sounds like a great addition to the ignition assy. ill add it to my list of upgrades to my stock bike. i just put iridium plugs in it, and havent even started the sucker up. im in the process of putting new sprockets, chain, tires, clutch push rod seal. might as well put this guy on there.

i do have a question about the dual lobe points cam. ive read a bit about it on here, and see it on mikesxs page. i understand what it does. but is there that much of an advantage to installing it. and how would one go about installing one?

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5twins
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PostPosted: August 2, 2008, 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition?

I have the single points cam installed. The concept is great, easier to set (only one points set), cheaper at points replacement time (again only one points set required, condenser too), but the problem I've encountered is the cam is not exactly machined right. The cylinders do not fire at exactly the same time as they should because one lobe is machined slightly different than the other. To do the conversion, you also switch to a single coil with a dual output.

Install is easy. Remove the lower set of points but leave the half plate (it holds the felt lube pads). Replace your current 2 coils with the single dual output one. Hook one of the R/W hot wires from your old coils (either one, doesn't matter) and the points/condenser lead from the points set you're using to the new coil. There is no plus or minus usually on these dual output coils so you can hook the wires to either connection.
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Retiredgentleman
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PostPosted: August 2, 2008, 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition?

Some people have problems adjusting the 2 sets of points. So, the only advantage to using dual cam/single points is the obvious one that you only have to adjust 1 set of points. I've always had the stock 2 points set-up on my bikes (XS500/XS650) and I find them easy to set-up. I have heard from one of the members here that the machining on the dual cam is not totally accurate.
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weekendrider
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PostPosted: August 2, 2008, 3:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition?

5twins wrote:
the cam is not exactly machined right. The cylinders do not fire at exactly the same time as they should

Were you able to reach a happy medium with the adjuster plate or did you take a file to it or ?or ?

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xsjohn
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PostPosted: August 2, 2008, 3:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition?

Would think some 220 paper and some finner to polish the advanced side...bet it won't take much.........xsjohn
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hal0tw0
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PostPosted: August 2, 2008, 8:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition?

Biff,
yeah I know about the boyer elec, I was just wondering about finding an '80+ bike and swapping the guts over to a points bike. I actually have all the stuff to do the single points conversion but decided to wait till I finished this trip. Ill let you know what I think of it too.

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seattleducati
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PostPosted: August 4, 2008, 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition?

Well Biff, I have the single point conversion on my bike...done by the previous owner...so, does it says anything that I'm looking at going to the boyer???

I am fine with spending $150 on the boyer, that's not a lot...the $250-300 that other companies are asking for is, in my mind, silly.
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