OK, so you guys are right........AGAIN!!!!

natek1977

I posted under electrical last night, thinking I was still having a problem with my points..... and quite a few responses later, I came to a conclusion. Everyone that posted said it was carbs. So, pissed off as I was, I went out to the workhouse, armed with a six pack, and proceeded to tear the carbs back off for the 10th time in the last month! This is becoming a daily ritual. In anger I changed everything back. I went back to all original jets, upped the needles, and put it all back together. I took a piece of advice and checked the diaphrams by plugging the hole and wactching the slides come back down. One came down a little faster than the other, maybe by a second or two. Coincidently, it is happening on the side that I am not having trouble with. Go figure. Anyway, I put the mess back together and fired it off. It started, but I had to hold it just off idle to keep it running. I should tell you that I did'nt put any filters back on, just so I could see what was happening. It seems to be popping back through the carbs, and running pretty rough. And if you rap the throttle, it skips alot, then kind of breaks through it and runs like it's on crack. But as soon as you let off it stalls. I still have the plume of smoke coming out of the exhaust. Now, when I checked my floats, I had the carbs upside down on the bench. I took a metric tape, and rested it against the float bowl gasket, and then kind of sighted it from the side.. It measured out at 24mm(with one eye closed)LOL. Is this the right way to check this or am I screwing myself? I'm kind of limited on tools at home, so if anybody knows a good Mac Gyver trick, I'd love to know. Does anybody think this is the root of the problem? I'm guessing if I could get the pig to idle right, I could lean it out a little more. Also, I forgot to mention , this thing was ticking like a time bomb after I shut it off. I know I have new pipes, and the metal is ticking from the heat, but so was the engine. Should this thing have gotten that hot running for just 30 seconds or so? I don't know, I'm probably worrying too much. It just seems like it NEVER got that hot running for such a short time. I have to say I am feeling a little better about the whole thing, because at least it is kicking over and not backfiring like it was, but I'm not out of the woods yet. I am open to any and all suggestions. Also, thanks for convincing me not to take it to a mechanic, tt maniac. I might actually be able to keep some money in my wallet for a change......

xsjohn · Last edited by xsjohn on May 23, 2007, 4:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

Dragons Fire Carb cleaner at auto zone.......Same problem with my 77 I used to own......The needle jets are most likely plugged......My friends 79 had the same problem........Think we had to remove the needle jets and push guitar string through the tiny holes.....Both run ok now....

John

natek1977

XS John.... I called Auto Zone in my neck of the woods. They have never heard of that brand carb cleaner.... The guy that answered sounded like he just finished smoking a joint!!LOL. He said none of the Auto Zone's carried that brand. I don't know. Do you think my floats sound like they are in the right place? Or do you think they are too high, and maybe flooding it out? I fear I may have to rip them apart again......... Oh well, such is life.. I think I need more beer!!! Rolling Eyes

xsjohn

I buy it all the time here in NC at auto zone.....I Couldn't find it on line...I will stop recommending it if is scarce elsewhere..Sorry I gave you a bad lead for NH.....Maybe ask a carb shop who makes the strongest carb spray cleaner....Lot of that stuff you can buy in parts stores just won't clean very well for these tough little carbs.......

John

Xumi

natek1977 wrote:

I posted under electrical last night, thinking I was still having a problem with my points..... and quite a few responses later, I came to a conclusion. Everyone that posted said it was carbs. So, pissed off as I was, I went out to the workhouse, armed with a six pack, and proceeded to tear the carbs back off for the 10th time in the last month! This is becoming a daily ritual. In anger I changed everything back. I went back to all original jets, upped the needles, and put it all back together. I took a piece of advice and checked the diaphrams by plugging the hole and wactching the slides come back down. One came down a little faster than the other, maybe by a second or two. Coincidently, it is happening on the side that I am not having trouble with. Go figure. Anyway, I put the mess back together and fired it off. It started, but I had to hold it just off idle to keep it running. I should tell you that I did'nt put any filters back on, just so I could see what was happening. It seems to be popping back through the carbs, and running pretty rough. And if you rap the throttle, it skips alot, then kind of breaks through it and runs like it's on crack. But as soon as you let off it stalls. I still have the plume of smoke coming out of the exhaust. Now, when I checked my floats, I had the carbs upside down on the bench. I took a metric tape, and rested it against the float bowl gasket, and then kind of sighted it from the side.. It measured out at 24mm(with one eye closed)LOL. Is this the right way to check this or am I screwing myself? I'm kind of limited on tools at home, so if anybody knows a good Mac Gyver trick, I'd love to know. Does anybody think this is the root of the problem? I'm guessing if I could get the pig to idle right, I could lean it out a little more. Also, I forgot to mention , this thing was ticking like a time bomb after I shut it off. I know I have new pipes, and the metal is ticking from the heat, but so was the engine. Should this thing have gotten that hot running for just 30 seconds or so? I don't know, I'm probably worrying too much. It just seems like it NEVER got that hot running for such a short time. I have to say I am feeling a little better about the whole thing, because at least it is kicking over and not backfiring like it was, but I'm not out of the woods yet. I am open to any and all suggestions. Also, thanks for convincing me not to take it to a mechanic, tt maniac. I might actually be able to keep some money in my wallet for a change......

I Concur with John - smells like plugged jets. Start with the pilot jets. Make sure you can see light through them little holes. If you clean them with a wire, be careful not to ream the holes bigger than they are supposed to be.. brass is pretty soft stuff. While you're in there, check your needle jet holes too.

That Diaphragm difference doesn't sound like enough to cause your symptoms... though it could be adding to them. Take the diaphragms outside, and hold the diaphragm up to the sun like you are trying to look through it. stretch it gently between your fingers and see if you have holes in it. If so, don't panic.. they are usually repairable, just don't make them worse.

If you're new pipes are more free flowing and you have the filters off... that will definitely cause a lean condition with stock jets, and account for the heat and some of the backfire.. but carb farts (backfire through the carbs) is usually a sign of something else.

Floats.. your technique sounds ok - just make sure your setting it to the height indicated in the manual.

Good luck.. remember carbs NEED patience. I can't tell you how many times I've had to take a set of carbs off because I missed something the first 4 times.

natek1977

I just changed the main and pilots back to original, and they were clean when I put them in.....as far as the needle jets......thats another story. I should probably check them. I havent had them out since I dipped the carbs. I did look over the diaphrams pretty well last night. Nothing jumped out at me... As far as the pipes go...the ones I took off were shorty's with burnt out baffles. Almost as loud as straights. The new ones have to have more backpressure. They are much quieter. And my old filters were paper and pretty much deteriorated....no filters, for the most part...... I may re check my floats again... Had them at .95 inches and reset the to 24mm, close but, maybe could be the difference..????? Any of this sound right?

Xumi

natek1977 wrote:

I just changed the main and pilots back to original, and they were clean when I put them in.....as far as the needle jets......thats another story. I should probably check them. I havent had them out since I dipped the carbs. I did look over the diaphrams pretty well last night. Nothing jumped out at me... As far as the pipes go...the ones I took off were shorty's with burnt out baffles. Almost as loud as straights. The new ones have to have more backpressure. They are much quieter. And my old filters were paper and pretty much deteriorated....no filters, for the most part...... I may re check my floats again... Had them at .95 inches and reset the to 24mm, close but, maybe could be the difference..????? Any of this sound right?

How was it running at .95? Looking at the conversion... .95 inch = 24.13 mm - so not much diff.

What does your service manual say for float height?

natek1977 · Last edited by natek1977 on May 22, 2007, 7:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

I just got finished putting the carbs back on the bike. I took the off, pulled them apart, checked the float height(it's 24mm),took all the jets out, checked them, made sure I could see through them,including the needle jets,checked the diaphrams for holes and reinstalled everything. I started the bike, and it ran rough, popping and sputtering, but it would idle.The left side is running strong, with barely any popping when you rap the throttle, but the right side is barely firing(firing very lightly). It pops and snaps when you get on it at first, then surges up. If you hold your hand at the end of the pipes when running, the left side will push your hand away. The right side almost wants to suck your hand into the pipe, like suction. I am clueless. Every thing seems to be in order, but something still isn't right. I have a question. If when I replaced the coils and condenser, if one of the wires wasnt completely tight in the connector, or if coil wires were somehow reversed, would the bike even run, or would it run but cause problems like this. The condenser was shrink wrapped with the same color wires, and I couldnt tell what side was what. So I just plugged them in. I've got to think if coil wires were reversed or condenser wires were reversed that the bike wouldnt even run, correct? Please let me know. Bike week is growing closer by the day and I still have to get my sheetmetal to paint.

natek1977

Book says .95 (clymer manual), ran good set at that, and at 24mm last year when I had them apart. Thats where they should be.....so the wretched manual says LOL (they should have an Emoticon for "going out of my fu*king mind) HAHA Rolling Eyes

Xumi

natek1977 wrote:

I just got finished putting the carbs back on the bike. I took the off, pulled them apart, checked the float height(it's 24mm),took all the jets out, checked them, made sure I could see through them,including the needle jets,checked the diaphrams for holes and reinstalled everything. I started the bike, and it ran rough, popping and sputtering, but it would idle.The left side is running strong, with barely any popping when you rap the throttle, but the right side is barely firing. It pops and snaps when you get on it at first, then surges up. If you hold your hand at the end of the pipes when running, the left side will push your hand away. The right side almost wants to suck your hand into the pipe, like suction. I am clueless. Every thing seems to be in order, but something still isn't right. I have a question. If when I replaced the coils and condenser, if one of the wires wasnt completely tight in the connector, or if coil wires were somehow reversed, would the bike even run, or would it run but cause problems like this. The condenser was shrink wrapped with the same color wires, and I couldnt tell what side was what. So I just plugged them in. I've got to think if coil wires were reversed or condenser wires were reversed that the bike wouldnt even run, correct? Please let me know. Bike week is growing closer by the day and I still have to get my sheetmetal to paint.

I'll take your word for it that the jets are clear... Now check for air leaks. Spray a touch of carb cleaner around your carb intake rubber boots (carb boots) and see if your idle jumps. If so, you have a leak on the intake side.

Take a cigarette or insence or something smoking.. and put it near your exhaust header and hit the throttle and see if the smoke moves. If so, you have an exhaust leak.

If you have neither.. check your timing.

I am not sure about a reversed coil or condenser... I'll let someone more knowledgeable than myself answer that one. My guess is that you'd fry the condenser and the coil wouldn't work at all. but that's just a wild ass guess.

natek1977

My buddy set the timing last year on it. I'm not good with OHM meters and such....can you set it with an automotive timing light or what.What is the easiest way to go about it? I swear I'm getting dumber by the minute. I think I need a beer. Confused

Xumi

natek1977 wrote:

My buddy set the timing last year on it. I'm not good with OHM meters and such....can you set it with an automotive timing light or what.What is the easiest way to go about it? I swear I'm getting dumber by the minute. I think I need a beer. Confused

It's ok.. drink a few more beers and you won't care anymore. Very Happy

Do you have a service manual? Follow the directions explicitly and you should be fine.

Check for air leaks first. Especially on the intake side. It can cause serious issues, and it only takes a few seconds.

xsjohn · Last edited by xsjohn on May 23, 2007, 7:04 am; edited 1 time in total

Hang in there....It's just a matter of time....

John

jayel

can you set it with an automotive timing light?

yes, best way

natek1977

Ok Xumi, I started the bike and checked it with carb cleaner. No idle surge, but my carb holders do have some hellified cracks in them. Never noticed till I squeezed them. None of the cracks travel to the inside, but to be safe, I ordered a set. Mike' XS was sold out, but I found a company in Canada that had them on Ebay. I paid 9 bucks more but they also come with the gaskets, which Mike's did not. Jayel, As far as setting the timing goes, do I just clamp on to one plug wire, check it, then move to the other one? On a car you just clamp on to the #1 wire. What side should I use or does it matter? And as far as advancing or retarding, how do you go about it, because the Clymer manual is kind of vague, they have you using a buzz box and ohm meter. Maybe I should just stick to cars. Man, I think I'm buzzed! Too many beers, is there such a thing? LOL

xsjohn

I called the carb cleaner Dragons Breath----Actually when I found the can it is called DRAGON FIRE by Castle..Auto Zone....Brain cramp.......

This stuff is very very strong..............It says high powered on the can and they mean it.....Will burn your skin and eyes fast....

John

natek1977

Cool.... I have a Castle dealer that comes to the dealership that I work at.... can looks familiar. Think I might have seen the mechanics using that stuff before. Maybe I'll go snooping around the workbenches tomorrow morning......Anyway, thanks for the tip!!!!!!

xsjohn

I cleared a xs1100 that had been sitting with fuel for 25 years...What a stone hard mess.....Spray with Dragon Fire and let set a while then blow out with brake cleaner then compressed air so you don't get that Fire on you or in your eyes...Repeat several times till you get sick of it and try them...Couple of beers won't hurt unless you spray that crap in your eyes...May need a paramedic then....I was dum enough to breath it by accident and thought I was going to die......Check the needle jets....

GOOD IDEA TO PUT A FAN BEHIND YOU TO BLAST AWAY THE FUMES...

john

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Yamaha xs650