Soldering recommended?

TeeCat · Posted: April 7, 2009, 6:41 pm Post subject: Soldering recommended?

Pete et al -

I received my kit today... all looks to be in good order. In reading through the instructions, it seems that you have two red wires - one from the harness and one from the unit - attaching to the positive terminal of the coil. I was wondering how this would be best accomplished.

I had planned to solder a female spade terminal to each of the wires that goes to the coil, and a spade or loop for the ground to the frame. But I'm confused by how to make the two connections to the coil.

Also, I'll have to get a soldering iron I suppose. Do I need flux and all that? I'll do some reading. It's been a while since I soldered and I want these connections to be solid.

Thanks -

TC

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

TeeCat -- You don't need flux. You just need a roll of rosin-core solder and a 45-or-50-watt solder iron. DON'T BUY acid-core solder. It's for pipe and for use by plumbers. ROSIN-CORE SOLDER is the thing for you.

Step 1 -- Plug your iron in and give it 5 minutes to get good and hot. While you wait, soak one of those little 2x4 kitchen sponges in a saucer of water. Place the saucer with the wet sponge in it on the bench next to your work.
Step 2 -- Touch the end of your solder to the tip of the iron, The solder should melt like butter in a hot skillet. Melt an inch or two of the stuff all over the tip of the iron. This is called "tinning the iron," and it is necessary.
Step 3 -- Wipe the tip of your iron on the sponge. All the extra solder will stay on the sponge and the business end of your new soldering iron will be a nice, shiny, silver. Now your weapon is ready.
Step 4 -- Some quick practice. Take two pieces of primary wire. Strip the insulation off the ends so you've got two pieces with about 1/2 inch of bare wire showing at both ends. Bend the bare ends so they are "L" shaped.
Step 5 -- Put the two L-shaped ends together so the meet at the elbows. Twist the end of each elbow around the shank of the elbow on the opposite wire. When you've done that, if you've done it right, You should have one long piece of wire made of two short pieces twisted together.
Step 5 -- Use the tip of your hot iron to heat the joint you have made. Touch the end of the solder to the hot joint -- NOT TO THE IRON. If the joint is hot enough, the solder will melt and will crawl right into the twisted joint and the strands of the wires.

In that sense, soldering is like braising with an acetylene torch. You don't want to melt the brass rod in the flame of the torch. You use the torch to heat the steel so hot that the brass rod melts when you touch it to the steel. The brass then crawls into all the pits and cracks and, when it cools, forms a perfect joint.

If you melt the solder with the iron, the melted solder forms balls and gobs that cling to -- but do not penetrate -- the braided wire. What you've got then is called a "cold joint," and it's no good. Same thing happens with braize: If you melt the brass with the torch, the joint won't hold.

xjwmx · Posted: April 7, 2009, 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Soldering recommended?

If I wanted it to be soldered, but I didn't know how to solder, I would take it to someone who does. It's not hard, but it's a skill, and you also need to be able to recognize good and bad solder joints when you see them.

If you didn't want to solder, you could crimp two wires in one single female connector, and push that on the coil lug. Twist the wires together first.

TeeCat · Posted: April 7, 2009, 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: Soldering recommended?

Guys, this is great! Thank you very much for the detailed info! Smile

On my Ninja 250R, I didn't solder when I installed my rear turn signals - I crimped and heat shrunk - but she's a little screamer of a parallel twin that does not vibrate. With the TX, however, I'm tempted to solder if you think it's necessary.

In any case... the two red wires DO go to one female spade, and to the positive terminal on the coil. Okay. I wanted to make sure that there were indeed two wires going to the positive on the coil.

TC

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

xjwmx -- Soldering is so easy, a little kid can learn to do it. The trick, as I say, is to HEAT THE JOINT WITH THE IRON and then TOUCH THE SOLDER TO THE HOT JOINT. If the joint is hot enough, the solder will melt and crawl into all the cracks and crevices and, when it cools, form a perfect joint. IF the joint is NOT hot enough, the solder will form balls and gobs that do not penetrate the cracks and crevices of the joint. When that mess cools, you have "a cold joint" which is no good.

Same thing is true when you solder a wire onto a spade connector. Heat the connector/wire joint with the iron. When it's hot enough, it will melt solder and the molten solder will crawl right into the braided wire/connector joint and form a perfect joint. If you end up with big gobs of solder hanging off the thing, you've got a cold joint and that ain't what you want.

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

TeeCat -- to answer your original question: There is no substitute for solder. Solder turns two conductors into one conductor. Crimping merely presses two conductors tightly together, and you ride around hoping they don't shake loose over time.

nj1639 · Posted: April 7, 2009, 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Soldering recommended?

Thanks Jimmy, think I'll get a soldering iron now that you've 'splained it.

xjwmx · Posted: April 7, 2009, 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: Soldering recommended?

jimmythetrucker wrote:

xjwmx -- Soldering is so easy, a little kid can learn to do it. The trick, as I say, is to HEAT THE JOINT WITH THE IRON and then TOUCH THE SOLDER TO THE HOT JOINT.

I know it's so easy a little kid can do it. I was doing it at age 10, and grew up into an electrical engineer.

But, what you're saying isn't "the trick." There are lots of tricks, or in other words, it's a skill. For example, have a clean iron. Have a little solder on the iron to use to heat the parts with, rather than the iron itself. Tin the parts before you solder them together. Don't move the joint till it's cooled and so on. I'm pretty sure I could spot the first solder joint most people ever made.

pamcopete · Posted: April 7, 2009, 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: Soldering recommended?

TeeCat

If you still have the stock wiring, then there are two red / white wires, one for each of the stock coils. You can connect one to the coil and the other to the red wire for the PAMCO.

TeeCat · Posted: April 7, 2009, 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Soldering recommended?

Pete et al -

Quote::

If you still have the stock wiring, then there are two red / white wires, one for each of the stock coils. You can connect one to the coil and the other to the red wire for the PAMCO.

I'm such a goob. I replaced the stock coils in '07 as part of my resto, and I should still have the original wiring... I didn't think of that. I might still be soldering my spades though.

TC

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

xjwmx wrote:

what you're saying isn't "the trick." There are lots of tricks, or in other words, it's a skill. For example, have a clean iron. Have a little solder on the iron to use to heat the parts with, rather than the iron itself. Tin the parts before you solder them together. Don't move the joint till it's cooled and so on. I'm pretty sure I could spot the first solder joint most people ever made.

You're right, xjwmx. There's more to it than I said, but I didn't lie when a said a little kid can do it. I was a technician in the Marines. I make good joints but even I don't take as much care as you do.

xjwmx · Posted: April 8, 2009, 10:50 am Post subject: Re: Soldering recommended?

Jimmy, sorry for sounding almost like I was jumping on you. I think the only time I ever talked about something like this was discussing how some product should go forward, and I had some kind of flashback!

Of course someone can solder their own motorcycle.

BTW, Dad was a Marine in WWII in the S. Pacific, and seems like many friends of mine over the years have been Marines as well.

Xumi · Posted: April 8, 2009, 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Soldering recommended?

Soldering is a skill - I've had many years experience with it myself, both as technician and as inspector for others during repair and assembly. Anyone can do it, and I recommend doing it yourself - it's a great skill to have as we work on these old beasts.

Wires, fortunately are pretty easy to solder, even for the novice. Practice once or twice on some scrap wire before doing the deed and you will be fine.

1 - Buy a 30W Iron - Radio shack sells a two-stage iron that's adequate for most tasks. 50W Irons are overkill for 99% of tasks, and can even damage what your working on (so can 30W, but it's a bit harder).
www.radioshack.com/pro...Id=2062730

DO NOT BUY THIS:
www.radioshack.com/pro...Id=2062752
If you don't know what you're doing, you'll melt your insulation an inch up the wire before you blink twice. These monsters are for heavy duty jobs only.

2 - Buy rosin core solder. I prefer a thin diameter - this will do:
www.radioshack.com/pro...Id=2062715

3 - Burn in your new iron. Plug it in, put the switch on lowest setting, and let it warm up for at least 20 minutes. Put some solder on the tip, and let it stay warm for another 15. This will help your heat coil survive a lot longer. If you skip this step, expect a short life from your soldering iron, especially the inexpensive ones.

4 - Prepare wire: Strip back your wiring to allow adequate join. Run some shrink wrap up your wires. You can use an aligator clip to hold the wire for soldering. This helps prevent melting insulation and holds it steady during the operation, and gives it a stable place to cool after.

5 - Clean your tip by rubbing it against a damp sponge while the iron is hot.

6 - Tin your wires. Apply some solder to your iron tip, then put the iron against the stripped wire. Apply a small amount of solder to the WIRE (not the iron). Hold until the solder begins to melt. You will be able to see the solder soak into the space between the wires. This is called Wicking.

Video of tinning:
video.google.com/video...0041105097

7 - Bend your wires with needle nose pliers into hooks. Join the hooks together and squeeze them together with pliers. they should be fairly snug.

8 - Clean soldering iron by rubbing against sponge again.

9 - Apply fresh solder to tip of iron. Just enough to form a small 'wet area' around the tip.

10 - Touch the iron to the hooked wires, making sure contact is made on both wires.

11 - Hold iron until solder melts to both wires. Add a Very Small amount of solder to the join if the wires don't cooperate in joining. Don't add so much that the solder starts to sag or drip.

12 - Remove iron from joint, making sure that the wires stay stationary while the solder cools.

13 - Clean soldering iron again and apply fresh solder to the tip. Turn off iron and allow to cool with solder on the tip (helps preserve tip for longer tip life)

14 - Done! Let cool for 5 minutes, slide the shrink wrap over the joint and heat with heat gun (or wife's hair dryer, if you must).

Remember this when soldering.. Use the MINIMUM amount of solder to get a good bond. When it's done, the bond should appear smooth, like liquid frozen in place... not like a giant blob about to drip off the end of the joint or have a 'powdery' texture (this is usually caused by inadequate heat or moving the parts during cooling).

Xumi · Posted: April 8, 2009, 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Soldering recommended?

One more thing - When purchasing your equipment, just buy what you need. Don't spend $100+ on a dial-a-temp soldering station with vacuum unless you plan to go into electronic assembly as a profession. Just because it's expensive, it won't make soldering easier (in fact, it will be more complicated), and it will just hurt your wallet without gaining you any advantage when soldering wires.

The simple 30W pencil iron is plenty for what you'll be doing on a bike, and even though Radio Shack's irons will burn themselves up pretty quick (especially if you don't burn them in) and have cheap tips, at the price.. they do fantastic.

Same goes for Solder. Just buy cheap, thin rosin core solder - 60/40 is fine. You don't need to spend $20 for 80/20 - you aren't doing high end electronics, you're soldering wires... go with the cheap stuff.

And Whatever you do, don't touch the barrel of the iron when it's hot.. use the grip. 600 degree metal is a serious kinda hurt.

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